Newer Home Disconnect Panel Lug Piggybacking

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Matt.W

Member
Location
Charleston
Occupation
Naval Engineer Retired
Newbee to the forum, Retired Naval Engineer, USCG. Living in Charleston, SC. Recently (2yrs) had an inground swimming pool installed. The pool company sub-contracted electrician piggybacked the pool panel (pump, heat pump, controls, and lights) into the lugs inside the Schneider Electric RC200S disconnect panel which had 2 #6-350 CU cables for the disconnect. The disconnect panel is rated for the 2 #6-350 CU/AL. The job was approved the the Charleston city inspector.
I contract Schneider and they advised "It might be safe, but the main issue is the devices are not UL tested and listed for that, so when they are changed or parts added that are not from the factory that voids the UL and Warranty."

The Pool company wants to come out and put Polaris Taps in place. Thoughts?

The Charleston city inspectors office ghosted me... Thoughts?

Question; is that safe, legal and meets code, do I worry? Getting ready to have a generator installed and these items will be bypassed.

v/r. Matt W.
 
Fred B

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Matt.W said:
RC200S disconnect panel which had 2 #6-350 CU cables for the disconnect. The disconnect panel is rated for the 2 #6-350 CU/AL.
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Not sure. SD spec sheet doesn't indicate this, but if specific product you have has a different spec. then so be it. But, how is this connected to the pool panel, are both wires that terminate onto the lug of same size, and rated to the 200 amp of the main protecting the feed thru lugs? Pictures?

Your statement related to the Schneider representative that it is not listed for that connection supports what I see related to the RC200S panel.
 
M

Matt.W

Member
Location
Charleston
Occupation
Naval Engineer Retired
Attached are pics. The center pic is the disconnect panel. You can see the red and black wire leave the disconnect panel in conduit about 3" to a small breaker panel with a 30amp breaker then out to the pool equipment panel. The text attachment is a conversation I had with Schneider Tech Support.
 

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M

Matt.W

Member
Location
Charleston
Occupation
Naval Engineer Retired
Additional photos.
 

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infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
Those terminals are not listed for two condcutors so it's a violation. Also since the conductors are smaller than the OCPD the tap rules would apply which may create other violations. I also do not see the proper SE cable connectors on the SE cables in the back of the enclosures.
 
M

Matt.W

Member
Location
Charleston
Occupation
Naval Engineer Retired
Fred B said:
Not sure. SD spec sheet doesn't indicate this, but if specific product you have has a different spec. then so be it. But, how is this connected to the pool panel, are both wires that terminate onto the lug of same size, and rated to the 200 amp of the main protecting the feed thru lugs? Pictures?

Your statement related to the Schneider representative that it is not listed for that connection supports what I see related to the RC200S panel.
Click to expand...
I just posted a few pics. After looking at it this morning, the larger cables from the meter are saddled into the lugs. It is hard to see but it looks like the piggybacked wires are AWG 6, it is hard to make out but that's what it looks like. From the disconnect box it has about 3-4 feet of conduit into a single breaker box with a 30amp breaker then conduit to the pool equipment box. I have also included a text file of my conversation with the Schneider Tech.
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Ok, so the double tap is definitely not ok. As far as using "Polaris" connectors to make a tap, that is completely fine, the guy you talked to doesn't know what he's talking about. Personally I might use a split bolt to make the tap as they are much smaller than Polaris connectors and just the whole thing turns out neater usually.

Note that this would be a feeder tap and you would have to comply with one of the feeder tap rules in 240.21(C). (I'm not necessarily saying it doesn't comply currently, I just didn't evaluate it for tap rule compliance).
 
Fred B

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Also consideration of the conductor type going to the pool panel depending on location of pool panel would need to be copper per 680 if in a corrosive area.
If the wire is copper and put under the same lug as the AL 200A feeder coming off the main breaker you have another issue.

electrofelon said:
Ok, so the double tap is definitely not ok. As far as using "Polaris" connectors to make a tap, that is completely fine, the guy you talked to doesn't know what he's talking about. Personally I might use a split bolt to make the tap as they are much smaller than Polaris connectors and just the whole thing turns out neater usually.

Note that this would be a feeder tap and you would have to comply with one of the feeder tap rules in 240.21(C). (I'm not necessarily saying it doesn't comply currently, I just didn't evaluate it for tap rule compliance).
Click to expand...
AFA a Polaris piercing tap don't see any straight section of wire to be able to even use them on (can't be installed on a curved wire).
 
M

Matt.W

Member
Location
Charleston
Occupation
Naval Engineer Retired
Fred B said:
Also consideration of the conductor type going to the pool panel depending on location of pool panel would need to be copper per 680 if in a corrosive area.
If the wire is copper and put under the same lug as the AL 200A feeder coming off the main breaker you have another issue.


AFA a Polaris piercing tap don't see any straight section of wire to be able to even use them on (can't be installed on a curved wire).
Click to expand...
The main wire is an 0750-45. Not sure if it copper or Al. The installer did a great job of cutting to size the main feeder and putty to cover up exposure.
 
Doc13067

Doc13067

Senior Member
Location
Bucks County/Philadelphia, PA USA
Get the second wire out of there. So many issues can come of that. If the inspectors are ghosting you I would just do it so it’s safe and doesn’t void the warranty or risk arcing and burning or low voltage. But I would do what electrofelon said and use a split bolt or I might use an ilsco insuleater or regular sandwich bug rather than a massive Polaris connector on each leg.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Fred B said:
AFA a Polaris piercing tap don't see any straight section of wire to be able to even use them on (can't be installed on a curved wire).
Click to expand...
Good point but since your loosening the lugs anyway you could pull out the larger conductors and straighten them out to make a spot for the IPC.
 
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