NFPA - Committee Topics

[mtnelect]

I was just on the NFPA website, reading about committee discussion topics. The first one was electric vehicles connecting to power homes. They were concerned about feedback damage ! The second one was about defining the word normal and reconditioned equipment. Molded circuit breakers can't be reconditioned but large scale breaker assemblies can. These are topics coming up soon.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Why would they not be concerned about backfeed issues? No different from the same concern where an optional standby power source is connected to supply a house.

It is very common for large breakers to be rebuilt as there are lots of parts that are designed to be replaced, but that is not the case with molded case breakers.

 

[electrofelon]

Did they talk at all about fixing some of the poor wording or trying to address why they keep coming up with horribly wording articles again and again? Or eliminating some of the ridiculous things in there that have no scientific basis and no one knows why they are in there? How about the AFCI fraud, no discussion on that? Bringing the communication circuits articles into at least the 90's?

 

[mtnelect]

The 20 something NFPA committees are assigned sections of the NEC. Each committee has 20 something members, divided up by 1/3 public, government, manufacturers. They have meetings upon meetings, most members have 20 years plus under their belt. The NFPA is a "Gigantic" organization. They have reams of transcripts on their website. If you have trouble sleeping at night ... this is the place !

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Did they talk at all about fixing some of the poor wording or trying to address why they keep coming up with horribly wording articles again and again? Or eliminating some of the ridiculous things in there that have no scientific basis and no one knows why they are in there? How about the AFCI fraud, no discussion on that? Bringing the communication circuits articles into at least the 90's?

In most cases the code changes are a result of panel action on a submitted proposal (Public Input, PI). Have you submitted PIs on the wording that you see as needing fixing?
There are some changes that originate within a code making panel, but the vast majority are based on PIs.

 

[roger]

The 20 something NFPA committees are assigned sections of the NEC. Each committee has 20 something members, divided up by 1/3 public, government, manufacturers. They have meetings upon meetings, most members have 20 years plus under their belt. The NFPA is a "Gigantic" organization. They have reams of transcripts on their website. If you have trouble sleeping at night ... this is the place !

Don't take this wrong but you're late to the party. Many here visit the NFPA site regularly and are contributors. A number have had proposals (inputs) accepted which are now part of the NEC.

Roger

 

[mtnelect]

In most cases the code changes are a result of panel action on a submitted proposal (Public Input, PI). Have you submitted PIs on the wording that you see as needing fixing?
There are some changes that originate within a code making panel, but the vast majority are based on PIs.

Thank you for your reply ... I have just started getting accustomed to NFPA website, no PI yet.

 

[mtnelect]

Don't take this wrong but you're late to the party. Many here visit the NFPA site regularly and are contributors. A number have had proposals (inputs) accepted which are now part of the NEC.

Roger

Thank you for your reply ... This is true, just getting started !

 

[electrofelon]

In most cases the code changes are a result of panel action on a submitted proposal (Public Input, PI). Have you submitted PIs on the wording that you see as needing fixing?
There are some changes that originate within a code making panel, but the vast majority are based on PIs.

Don, I don't think it's any secret that I despise the NFPA/NEC. I have not submitted any PI's.
Franky, I feel it is a lost cause and there is no hope for any reasonable change for the NEC. That document and organization just lets me down and disappoints me over and over.

 

[tom baker]

Thank you for your reply ... I have just started getting accustomed to NFPA website, no PI yet.

There is a topic on this forum for changes to the NEC. Write up your proposal (PI) and post for comments.

 

[tom baker]

Don, I don't think it's any secret that I despise the NFPA/NEC. I have not submitted any PI's.
Franky, I feel it is a lost cause and there is no hope for any reasonable change for the NEC. That document and organization just lets me down and disappoints me over and over.

I have some success over the years, a GFCI proposal and an article proposal

 

[ramsy]

I don't think it's any secret that I despise the NFPA/NEC. I have not submitted any PI's.
Franky, I feel it is a lost cause and there is no hope for any reasonable change for the NEC. That document and organization just lets me down and disappoints me over and over.

I'm also a vocal critic that articulates the occasional NEC defect for others to carry a torch thru the PI process.

Its also true, with complete regulatory failure of replacement-code enforcement, my rivals can't be made to clear existing carbonized or cross-circuited wires, required to get AFCI's working.

Even after a complete rewire, EC's are removing AFCI's immediately after inspected to avoid callbacks.

Too many occupants use extension cords & dusty power strips that trigger AFCI's, or Amazon (CE) labeled appliances & iOT missing UL testing & FCC noise limits, or encounter utility issues that AFCI's can't handle

Knuckleheads have revolted, are non-compliant, refusing to be industry Beta testers, or enforcers of AFCI technology.

Changing the wording with PI's won't matter, because replacement code remains un-enforceable.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don, I don't think it's any secret that I despise the NFPA/NEC. I have not submitted any PI's.
Franky, I feel it is a lost cause and there is no hope for any reasonable change for the NEC. That document and organization just lets me down and disappoints me over and over.

So you become part of the problem by not submitting PIs for change...

.just like with government, don't complain about it if you haven't voted ....

don't complain about the NEC if you have not participated in the process to improve it.

 

[tom baker]

I agree with Don
There have been significant improvements to the NEC , one example is article 250. It’s the old electricians who were taught wrong, the NEC was not clear on grounding and bonding.
For example most electricians call a green wire “ground”, but look up the definition of ground and that is not what that wire is

 

[ramsy]

..just like with government, don't complain about it if you haven't voted ....

Or expect your rivals to out-vote you.

California voters use their local Chamber of Commerce to sponsor legislators that defund the State's Consumer Protection Agency, which finances OSHA, and CSLB's Statewide Investigative Fraud Team (SWIFT).

Have not seen a SWIFT bulletin sting project targeting unlicensed activity in over a year.

So with Gov. enforcement cut off at the knees, last week the State SWIFT bulletin reported a sting project conducted by a private sector interest group.

The insurance industry is the new Sheriff in town, and also heavily represented in NFPA code-making panels.

 

[ramsy]

Here's what that bulletin looks like

https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/PressReleases/2022/Fresno_County_Sting.pdf

 

[tom baker]

The insurance industry is the new Sheriff in town, and also heavily represented in NFPA code-making panels.

Which panels and how many insurance reps on each panel?

 

[ramsy]

Which panels and how many insurance reps on each panel?

The last IAEI membership meeting I attended described insurance lawyers that show up to vote and present arguments at any panel they want.

Not sure they need to be elected, since 90.4 Enforcement shows "insurance inspectors" as an Authority having jurisdiction (AHJ).

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The last IAEI membership meeting I attended described insurance lawyers that show up to vote and present arguments at any panel they want.

Not sure they need to be elected, since 90.4 Enforcement shows "insurance inspectors" as an Authority having jurisdiction (AHJ).

Show up where? There is no provisions for outsiders to vote at any code making panel meeting, and only limited provisions for outsiders to present information at a code making panel meeting.

 

[ramsy]

Show up where?

I will ask at my next IAEI meeting.