NFPA Experts Feeding GEC vs EGC Confusion

[JMBSD]

I recently came across this article by Dean Austin who is listed as an NFPA Senior Electrical Specialist. BLOG ARTICLE HERE

It made me wonder, if specialists associated with the NFPA use this kind of language, there's no wonder electrical professionals themselves do not have a full understanding on the subject.

In the second paragraph he makes a series of true but separate statements, "The earth itself is not considered an effective ground-fault current path, so sticking the wire in the ground is not enough." that true statement is contradicted by a confusing statement in the next paragraph "Having a strong grounding electrode system stabilizes voltage and helps to clear ground faults." The whole article was just all over the place.

The article itself confuses the distinction and related but separate purposes of the GEC and EGC. (edit, or maybe it's just me) Anyhow, I suppose the purpose of this post is just to vent frustration

 

[tom baker]

Mike holt once said 95% of information on grounding is wrong.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Not the first time an electrical expert has posted information that is totally wrong.

 

[electrofelon]

IMO any general discussion on "grounding" needs to be clear from the beginning that, unfortunately, the word "grounding" is a homophone, that is the same word has multiple different unrelated meanings. In this context we have three:. Connecting equipment to earth, system grounding, and fault clearing (which has nothing to do with physical Earth at low voltage of course). They really don't have anything to do with each other other than often using (mostly/partly) the same conductor. It's hard to talk about the topic if you lump all these three together and treat them as one thing.

 

[jaggedben]

... Anyhow, I suppose the purpose of this post is just to vent frustration

Yeah, probably all it will do. But the author deserves your criticism.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I still believe if we changed the name of the equipment grounding conductor, to equipment bonding conductor, a lot of these issues would go away. The term EGC strongly suggest a connection to the earth and that really has nothing to do with function of the EGC.

 

[electrofelon]

I still believe if we changed the name of the equipment grounding conductor, to equipment bonding conductor, a lot of these issues would go away. The term EGC strongly suggest a connection to the earth and that really has nothing to do with function of the EGC.

I support that. Another significant thing would be to get rid of all the garbage that overemphasizes the importance of the grounding electrode conductor. Also make bonding and grounding separate articles.

 

[JMBSD]

I still believe if we changed the name of the equipment grounding conductor, to equipment bonding conductor, a lot of these issues would go away. The term EGC strongly suggest a connection to the earth and that really has nothing to do with function of the EGC.

If I remember correctly, wasn't there a few public inputs on exactly that topic of renaming the EGC and the other components to separate out all the binding/grounding confusion... and it got rejected by the panel because it's too ingrained in the industry terminology and usage?

I wish they would rename and separate out bonding like was previously mentioned. Yes it would take a couple years for it to sink in and for everyone to adjust but once it did it would probably save lives honestly because it would be better understood.

 

[jmellc]

I have long thought officials love 10 dollar words and confusing language. Neutral and ground would be much simpler to remember and refer to in our conversations than grounded electrode conductor and electrode grounding conductor or grounding electrode conductor. But authorities cannot stand simplicity. I see similar with many references to "shall be not less than" instead of "shall be at least". Write the way most people speak. Another line in my long list of reasons for my declining respect for authority. Most authorities do little to deserve any respect.

 

[kwired]

I have long thought officials love 10 dollar words and confusing language. Neutral and ground would be much simpler to remember and refer to in our conversations than grounded electrode conductor and electrode grounding conductor or grounding electrode conductor. But authorities cannot stand simplicity. I see similar with many references to "shall be not less than" instead of "shall be at least". Write the way most people speak. Another line in my long list of reasons for my declining respect for authority. Most authorities do little to deserve any respect.

Thing is a grounded conductor is not always a neutral conductor. Many who already can't figure some of this out are really confused if introduced to a corner grounded delta system.

 

[jaggedben]

Neutral and ground would be much simpler to remember and refer to in our conversations than grounded electrode conductor and electrode grounding conductor or grounding electrode conductor. ...

But it's not simpler to use two terms to refer to four things, it's actually more confusing.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If I remember correctly, wasn't there a few public inputs on exactly that topic of renaming the EGC and the other components to separate out all the binding/grounding confusion... and it got rejected by the panel because it's too ingrained in the industry terminology and usage?

I wish they would rename and separate out bonding like was previously mentioned. Yes it would take a couple years for it to sink in and for everyone to adjust but once it did it would probably save lives honestly because it would be better understood.

I made those submissions a number of cycles ago...the majority of CMP 5 agreed, but one less than the 2/3s majority required to make a code change.

 

[ggunn]

Mike Holt once said 95% of information on grounding is wrong.

Grounding is Black Magic. It's Voodoo.

 

[electrofelon]

Mike holt once said 95% of information on grounding is wrong.

Well 86.3% of statistics are just made up.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Thing is a grounded conductor is not always a neutral conductor. Many who already can't figure some of this out are really confused if introduced to a corner grounded delta system.

Corner grounded delta is just to the left of witchcraft for most people. Even an inspector basically shrugged his shoulders and said, "I have no idea how it works. Whatever you do, I'll pass it."

SceneryDriver