NFPE 70 Arc Flash

[SiddMartin]

Just wanted to find out how many companys are seriously enforcing this safety program. (As complicated as it seems) The company I work for has been slowly adaping to it, ie. buying all cotton shirts, fire rated cover-alls, face shield, etc.

-Per the requirements - shutting down everything that is possible when exposed to live parts, that would req, shutting the main off at a resi house to add a breaker, and if not, then req. to wear so much protection.

- or, troubleshooting 480v, you need on the cover alls & face shield and everything else.

Are any of your companies strictly enforcing this?

One companies prices will be higher then another just to include the time of wearing protective equiment or shutting down, vs. joe blow who will run it hot. How can you compete if not everyone is enforcing it??

 

[peter d]

Are any of your companies strictly enforcing this?

The last company I worked for required PPE. Unfortunately, it took the death of an employee on the job to take the policy seriously.

One companies prices will be higher then another just to include the time of wearing protective equiment or shutting down, vs. joe blow who will run it hot. How can you compete if not everyone is enforcing it??

The cost of deaths, injuries, lost time, equipment damage, downtime from damaged equipment, OSHA fines, and a destroyed company reputation is much more expensive than a shutdown.

 

[electricalperson]

wear ppe gear when working in panels. who cares if it takes longer to troubleshoot or test something. it will take longer to heal from massive burn wounds then it does to do something safe

 

[SiddMartin]

The cost of deaths, injuries, lost time, equipment damage, downtime from damaged equipment, OSHA fines, and a destroyed company reputation is much more expensive than a shutdown.

Solid point

 

[SiddMartin]

Maybe I was misunderstood, I don't disagree w/ the safety at all, my question is, How many companies are adapting to it and strictly enforcing it?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

One of the biggest problems is companies that are requiring a full 40 cal suit when 8 cal pants and shirts would do the job.
A lot of the larger manufacturers are enforcing it for any contractor that works in their plants.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

that would req, shutting the main off at a resi house to add a breaker,

You still need the PPE even with main off as your are still exposed to the line side.
Don

 

[eric9822]

I work for a large corporation and it is enforced in all our facilities. Most of the people that have 10 or more years experience were very resistant to it at first (including me). We are now about five years into the enforcement and most people have accepted it as a way of life and an improvement over the way we used to do things. We recently had an incident in one of our facilities. The person involved was racking in a 480V ACB and a phase to phase fault occurred. He was wearing the proper PPE and no injury was sustained. If this had happened five years ago, prior to our implementation of NFPA70E safe practices, he would have likely received significant injuries.

 

[iwire]

The last company I worked for required PPE. Unfortunately, it took the death of an employee on the job to take the policy seriously.

Pete I have to disagree with that.

As companies go they did take safety pretty seriously, I had a 50 hour safety officer course 8 years before the death. They trained and they where willing to spend the money for the right equipment.

Obviously the death still happened and it should not have.

Regardless of the death the company had a far below average accident rate.

 

[SiddMartin]

You still need the PPE even with main off as your are still exposed to the line side.
Don

I am only starting to understand it, but I thought that if you were within 1 or 2" of energized parts, you need appropriate ppe, so if you shut down the main w/ the cover on, then took off the cover and added a circuit on breaker #32, you wouldn't be within that 1" or 2" (bus is dead) and would be okay. Am I incorrect in this? Let me know

 

[ItsHot]

confusion???

confusion???

I am only starting to understand it, but I thought that if you were within 1 or 2" of energized parts, you need appropriate ppe, so if you shut down the main w/ the cover on, then took off the cover and added a circuit on breaker #32, you wouldn't be within that 1" or 2" (bus is dead) and would be okay. Am I incorrect in this? Let me know

I am not sure on this? I do know now that there is more confusion on arc flash/ ppe,than there is on the NEC!

 

[iwire]

I am only starting to understand it, but I thought that if you were within 1 or 2" of energized parts, you need appropriate ppe, so if you shut down the main w/ the cover on, then took off the cover and added a circuit on breaker #32, you wouldn't be within that 1" or 2" (bus is dead) and would be okay. Am I incorrect in this? Let me know

No, it is not correct.

Start here and feel free to come back with questions.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

SiddMartin,
There are two different types of protection that are required for live work. One is protection from shock and that requires the use of voltage rated tools and gloves. The second is protection from the arc flash. Even if there is no exposure to a shock hazard, there will often be an arc flash exposure.
Don

 

[peter d]

As companies go they did take safety pretty seriously, I had a 50 hour safety officer course 8 years before the death. They trained and they where willing to spend the money for the right equipment.

Regardless of the death the company had a far below average accident rate.

No argument here, I'm not saying they were an "unsafe" company, quite the opposite as you point out. But you can't deny the use of PPE and the enforcement of it was lacking before the death.

 

[76nemo]

Maybe I was misunderstood, I don't disagree w/ the safety at all, my question is, How many companies are adapting to it and strictly enforcing it?

I have yet to read the rest of this thread, but I'll say this,...................who cares how many companies are following suit? I hope to see you in full suit where required!

 

[76nemo]

I work for a large corporation and it is enforced in all our facilities. Most of the people that have 10 or more years experience were very resistant to it at first (including me). We are now about five years into the enforcement and most people have accepted it as a way of life and an improvement over the way we used to do things. We recently had an incident in one of our facilities. The person involved was racking in a 480V ACB and a phase to phase fault occurred. He was wearing the proper PPE and no injury was sustained. If this had happened five years ago, prior to our implementation of NFPA70E safe practices, he would have likely received significant injuries.

AMEM, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iwire]

But you can't deny the use of PPE and the enforcement of it was lacking before the death.

Compared to what? 100% compliance every time?

Then your right, it was lacking.

But if we compare to every other EC we have worked with or observed ........

 

[76nemo]

I am only starting to understand it, but I thought that if you were within 1 or 2" of energized parts, you need appropriate ppe, so if you shut down the main w/ the cover on, then took off the cover and added a circuit on breaker #32, you wouldn't be within that 1" or 2" (bus is dead) and would be okay. Am I incorrect in this? Let me know

You are speaking of single phase resi app's, correct, not 1" or 2" away from switchgear One or two inches? You meant feet, correct?

 

[peter d]

Compared to what? 100% compliance every time?

Then your right, it was lacking.

But if we compare to every other EC we have worked with or observed ........

Well now we're arguing semantics here. Yes, compared to many other EC's the use of PPE was way above them.

The bottom line is that it's an industry problem and many of the "old attitudes" still exist. How that will change I'm not really sure.

 

[76nemo]

Compared to what? 100% compliance every time?

Then your right, it was lacking.

But if we compare to every other EC we have worked with or observed ........

Then we might still be ignorant, or maybe it's arrogance if you think your skin won't conduct