Nitpicking 110.3 (B)

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ishium 80439

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I was wiring a hot tub today that required 2 #12's and 3 #10's pulled from the disco. The schematic specifically called out the color (eg "Blue #12). I pulled the colors I had w/ me for the ungrounded conductors (green and white for ground and neut) but they did not correspond with the colors called out by the manufacturer. Did I install a code violation?
 
ishium 80439 said:
I was wiring a hot tub today that required 2 #12's and 3 #10's pulled from the disco. The schematic specifically called out the color (eg "Blue #12). I pulled the colors I had w/ me for the ungrounded conductors (green and white for ground and neut) but they did not correspond with the colors called out by the manufacturer. Did I install a code violation?
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WHAT A HACK!!!!!,,,,JK,,,,,I don't think it's a violation
 
Elementary. If you don't use the right colors it will not heat.
 
I can butcher with the best of them.

I'm actually just trying to see how ridiculous we can get w/ enforcement. I think technically this could be considered violation. I'm wondering if there is another section of code that I'm overlooking that would contradict/ override this.

We were pulling the #6's from the panel to the disco and commenting on how silly it is that you can't use identifying tape for #6 and started thinking of how far we could go with nonsensical violations.
 
Unless your dealing with a hard a-- inspecter i see no real issue. As you know you are supposed to follow the instructions no matter how stupid. Blue will not heat as good as red. LOL
 
I can't recall which me member presents the case (hopefully he will chime in) but I think he has a point in that 100.3(B) says "any instructions included in the listing and labeling", so we have a question, are those instructions included ?
 
When you take off the cover to the connection point there are schematics printed on the back of the cover (well I guess technically they are there whether or not you take it off). There are several different models of tubs that each have different configurations (jumpers on the board in diff positions etc). That is where it calls out the specific colors. I would consider that included.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Unless your dealing with a hard a-- inspecter i see no real issue. As you know you are supposed to follow the instructions no matter how stupid. Blue will not heat as good as red. LOL
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that's what I always thought: heater wires in red, A/C or refrigeration wires in blue.:grin:
 
ishium 80439 said:
When you take off the cover to the connection point there are schematics printed on the back of the cover (well I guess technically they are there whether or not you take it off). There are several different models of tubs that each have different configurations (jumpers on the board in diff positions etc). That is where it calls out the specific colors. I would consider that included.
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Are you sure the paperwork is not just showing you which conductors to tie into?
 
If you don't use the correct color wire, lawyers will pop up out of the tub drain line to sue you if things go wrong. That is, if the hot tub doesn't explode upon being powered up the first time. :roll:

Technically, it probably violates 110.3(B) to use different colored wire(s) than the instructions specify.

Curious: do the instructions specify colors from the panel to the disco, or just the disco to the tub, or both? Also, does it give any reason for the chosen wire colors?
 
ishium 80439 said:
I was wiring a hot tub today that required 2 #12's and 3 #10's pulled from the disco. The schematic specifically called out the color (eg "Blue #12). I pulled the colors I had w/ me for the ungrounded conductors (green and white for ground and neut) but they did not correspond with the colors called out by the manufacturer. Did I install a code violation?
Click to expand...

I just noticed this thread as pointed out to me by Bob. As some of you know, I have been on the other side of the "fence" regarding installation instructions and their use with regard to product listing.

In this case, color of the blue conductor has nothing to do with its operation or would be a violation with the NEC and UL listing. IMHO, the manufacturer made a typo, and/or the instructions were written by a European manufacturer. They love blue...:roll: You could have used some BLUE tape to make it fully compliant.:D

Good thing it didn't say to use all green conductors because there will be a NEC violation/conflict (210.5, 250.119, 200.6, etc.).

While UL does evaluate the installation instructions when a product is submitted for listing, they obviously missed this "major violation"....Maybe the proofreader should be fired.

At the end of the day, all that matters is that the AHJ is fine with whatever color you installed (aside from Blue).:)

Oh...IMHO, as long as the conductor meets the NEC identification requirement and size, it is not a violation nor should it invalidate the UL listing.
 
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Are we not Electricians?
If so then we already threw out the directions!
An hour later I pulled them from the trash and put my sons' bike together one Christmas.
Use all black wire is color blind; not following NEC and Manuf. AWG etc. would be a violation.
 
LJSMITH1 said:
I just noticed this thread as pointed out to me by Bob. As some of you know, I have been on the other side of the "fence" regarding installation instructions and their use with regard to product listing.

In this case, color of the blue conductor has nothing to do with its operation or would be a violation with the NEC and UL listing. IMHO, the manufacturer made a typo, and/or the instructions were written by a European manufacturer. They love blue...:roll: You could have used some BLUE tape to make it fully compliant.:D

Good thing it didn't say to use all green conductors because there will be a NEC violation/conflict (210.5, 250.119, 200.6, etc.).

While UL does evaluate the installation instructions when a product is submitted for listing, they obviously missed this "major violation"....Maybe the proofreader should be fired.

At the end of the day, all that matters is that the AHJ is fine with whatever color you installed (aside from Blue).:)

Oh...IMHO, as long as the conductor meets the NEC identification requirement and size, it is not a violation nor should it invalidate the UL listing.
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OK, where can I find the exception or rule that allows me to decide what part of the instructions are relevant and what part I can ignore.

Commonsense does not enter into it, it must be spelled out in black and white to be a 'rule'.
 
iwire said:
OK, where can I find the exception or rule that allows me to decide what part of the instructions are relevant and what part I can ignore.

Commonsense does not enter into it, it must be spelled out in black and white to be a 'rule'.
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I agree but just how often do we follow them to the letter ?
Had instructions said #12 wire and i used #10 would you fail it ?
At what point do we apply common since ?
 
I have a feeling that when the manufacture specifies an odd color for an installation such as this, it has less to do with function and more to do with them having a way to void the warrenty if you dont follow thier instructions.
 
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