NM/Romex in conduit

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midamericairon

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I am correcting violations written up by the local city electrical inspector on a house that is being renovated for resale. One of the "violations" is to correct romex pulled through EMT. They are on the 2005 code cycle. I can not find anything in the 2005 NEC that states this is a violation. I know the trump card is AHJ, but would like to know for myself if this is a violation or not.


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midamericairon said:
I am correcting violations written up by the local city electrical inspector on a house that is being renovated for resale. One of the "violations" is to correct romex pulled through EMT. They are on the 2005 code cycle. I can not find anything in the 2005 NEC that states this is a violation. I know the trump card is AHJ, but would like to know for myself if this is a violation or not.


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First, it depends on where the EMT is installed, inside or out.

Second, and I may be wrong here, I don't think inside of conduit was considered a damp/wet location until the 2008.
 
I kind of know this inspector and could imagine that he will ask for me to find it in the code where it says it can be done, rather than him show me where it says it can't be done. I could see him pulling the "AHJ" card and saying that he wants it corrected anyway.


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The NEC is a 'permissive' document. It won't specifically say you can do something. Otherwise, it would take a Kenworth with a 53' van behind it to lug it around.

The onus is on the inspector. If he stands firm, start working your way up the chain of command.
 
2014 NEC,

358.2 Definition
Electrical metallic tubing (EMT)
An unthreaded thinwall raceway of circular cross section designed for the physical protection and routing of conductors and cables and for the use as an equipment grounding conductor when installed utilizing appropriate fittings...........


I use it all the time for unfinished basements, also somewhere it states that when using emt or conduit for physical protection of nm cables that the sheething must protrude into the junction box by 1/4" just as if it were a connector.

Hope this helps!
Meanwhile I'll see if I can dig up more.
 
Here's a thought.. Is the jacket stripped off shortly after entering the EMT? We used to do that so we could get two 14-2s down a 1/2" EMT but an AHJ pointed out that it needed 1/4" of jacket inside the box. I have since stopped stripping it and now carry some Ideal ClearGlide to help get them both down. :thumbsup:
 
MNSparky said:
Here's a thought.. Is the jacket stripped off shortly after entering the EMT? We used to do that so we could get two 14-2s down a 1/2" EMT but an AHJ pointed out that it needed 1/4" of jacket inside the box. I have since stopped stripping it and now carry some Ideal ClearGlide to help get them both down. :thumbsup:
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That inspector was wrong, that doesn't apply when the NM cable is installed in a raceway since it's connected to a box.

I always install it without stripping it, but then again, I rarely get my work inspected. :thumbsup:
 
MNSparky said:
Here's a thought.. Is the jacket stripped off shortly after entering the EMT? We used to do that so we could get two 14-2s down a 1/2" EMT but an AHJ pointed out that it needed 1/4" of jacket inside the box. I have since stopped stripping it and now carry some Ideal ClearGlide to help get them both down. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Us too,
actually used to be able to get 3- 12/2/G's stripped to go in 1/2" EMT and just stubbed the jacket in past the throat bushing on top.
 
This "violation" could it be something just as often found.... no throat bushing on the EMT for protection of the nm where it enters the EMT?
Maybe this is what he's gigging you on.
 
midamericairon said:
I kind of know this inspector and could imagine that he will ask for me to find it in the code where it says it can be done,
Click to expand...



Point them here

358.22 Number of Conductors. The number of conductors
shall not exceed that permitted by the percentage fill
specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.

Cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use
is not prohibited by the respective cable articles. The number
of cables shall not exceed the allowable percentage fill
specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.
Click to expand...

IMO it would be up to the inspector to find another article prohibiting your installation.
 
Along with Bob's post you can show him the following from the 2002 ROP's

(Log #CP805)
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8- 289a - (348-8): Accept
Note: The Technical Correlating Committee understands that the
accepted text becomes a new paragraph to 348-22 of Proposal 8-276.
SUBMITTER:
CMP 8
RECOMMENDATION:
Add new second paragraph to 348-8 to read:
"Cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use is
permitted by the respective cable articles. The number of cables
shall not exceed the allowable percentage fill specified in Table 1,
Chapter 9."
SUBSTANTIATION:
The proposed language clarifies that cables,
where permitted elsewhere in the code, are allowed to be used in a
raceway. It also provides clear direction on how to determine
raceway fill where cables are installed.
PANEL ACTION:
Accept.
NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 14 VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 13

NOT RETURNED: 1 Corry
Click to expand...



 Roger
 
Chap 9, note (9) "...cable...shall be treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage conduit fill area. For cables that have elliptical cross sections, ...using the major diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter."

The maximum fill allowed is .53 I measured 12-2 romex at 3/8 inch major diameter. and that cross section comes out as .110 sq in. So one cable will fit in all the 1/2 inch conduits except seal tight LFNC which will need to be 3/4 inch conduit.
Using two cables knocks your fill down to .31, so you need to run the numbers when using 3/4 conduit.
And of course, dry location only.
 
I see this is an older thread revived by a recent post but will add that if the EMT is simply a sleeve for physical protection you don't have to follow raceway fill requirements. The longer the sleeve the more you may want to consider how easily they will go in though.
 
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