No bond found at pool pump motor!

[Knuckle Dragger]

Hello All,
I answered a service call this weekend to replace a water tight whip that fed the original swimming pool pump motor that was replaced buy the company that services the customers pool. When I arrived to the site the motor was mounted to the pump and the existing whip was connected (to be polite, in a fashion more than likely just to test the motor function)

Note: The pool equipment is located outside with no overhead weather protection ei. roof.
No problem, I thought. I had plenty of 1/2" "carflex" and fittings and THWN in my truck.
#1 I found the time clock was and indoor rated T101.
#2 No GFCI protection to the pump or the duplex receptacle mounted on the equipment pedestal.
I told the home owner besides replacing the whip he needs to upgrade the time clock and replace the circuit breakers to GFCI and he agreed to both recommendations.

#3 Upon cleaning up I was looking for the #8 solid bond to make sure it was connected to the motor, it was nowhere to be found.

The owner told me he had the gunite pool resurfaced and tiled and a new concrete patio replace back in 2009. (the bond may been removed or damaged then)

Now I am concerned. I know what I did made it better but not good enough,
what else do you think can be done short of ripping up the entire patio and pool coping. (I don't believe an inline nipple/ water bond will be enough).


Note: No wet/dry niche lights diving board or metal railings, steps or ladders as accessories to the pool.

I have not contacted the electrical inspector yet.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I left out my question.:ashamed1:
Does anybody know what year the NEC implemented the equipotential bonding of the conductive the materials that the swimming pool is made with?
This pool was built in 1975/76.

 

[RLyons]

I hope you have all these deficiencies in writing and signed by customer...
I am always told you touch it you own it! If ever in doubt call the boss and don't do anything until you get a answer.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I hope you have all these deficiencies in writing and signed by customer...
I am always told you touch it you own it! If ever in doubt call the boss and don't do anything until you get a answer.

Yes I do. I have heard the same phrase many times. (Unfortunately I am the boss)
The home owners pool is not open for swimming yet.

The replacement pump is supposed to run at 18 amps at 120 volts, it is drawing 27amps with a running voltage of 110volts. So needless to say the GFCI circuit breaker is tripping after 5 minutes of run time.

I have some theories on why it could me overloaded.
The impellor is seizing?
The pump is over sized and pushing to much water through the plumbing, causing it to possibly put strain on the impellor and motor?

I am up for your thought's on this.

 

[xformer]

Yes I do. I have heard the same phrase many times. (Unfortunately I am the boss)
The home owners pool is not open for swimming yet.

The replacement pump is supposed to run at 18 amps at 120 volts, it is drawing 27amps with a running voltage of 110volts. So needless to say the GFCI circuit breaker is tripping after 5 minutes of run time.

I have some theories on why it could me overloaded.
The impellor is seizing?
The pump is over sized and pushing to much water through the plumbing, causing it to possibly put strain on the impellor and motor?

I am up for your thought's on this.

old or faulty motor? I would meg the motor...

 

[GoldDigger]

If the motor was changed and it is a different speed motor than the original it could be overdriving the pump. Or the original motor was undersized and was running into its service factor range.
Or when the old pump/motor was failing somebody opened a flow limiting valve wide open to try to get enough water circulation?
I think that it is much more likely that the motor is mechanically overloaded or undersized than defective.

Tapatalk!

 

[cowboyjwc]

We were bonding pools in the 70's.

 

[RLyons]

The impellor is seizing? - Pool Guys problem
The pump is over sized and pushing to much water through the plumbing, causing it to possibly put strain on the impellor and motor? - Pool Guys problem


"GD":I think that it is much more likely that the motor is mechanically overloaded or undersized than defective. - All beyond my knowledge base which leads me to ask...do you know a good pool guy? :lol:


not feeling very helpful :ashamed1:

 

[ActionDave]

Yes I do. I have heard the same phrase many times. (Unfortunately I am the boss)
The home owners pool is not open for swimming yet.

The replacement pump is supposed to run at 18 amps at 120 volts, it is drawing 27amps with a running voltage of 110volts. So needless to say the GFCI circuit breaker is tripping after 5 minutes of run time.

I have some theories on why it could me overloaded.
The impellor is seizing?
The pump is over sized and pushing to much water through the plumbing, causing it to possibly put strain on the impellor and motor?

I am up for your thought's on this.

Find a valve to throttle down the amount of water being pushed.

Are you sure the replacement is a new pump or could it be used?

Do you know if the replacement pump motor is the same HP and RPM as the old?

An over sized pump motor won't pull too many amps but an undersized one will. A pump pushing water against a closed valve will pull less amps than it will when the valve is open. There needs to be enough back pressure to keep the pump from trying to move too much water.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Thank you all for your input. I will talk with the pool owner and share your thoughts with him to relay to the pool guy.

Side note: Originally the pool guy told the owner it wasn't his problem, the electrician needs to install a higher amperage circuit breaker.:happyno:

Hopefully we can find a solution to this problem.
Thanks again!

 

[kwired]

Yes I do. I have heard the same phrase many times. (Unfortunately I am the boss)
The home owners pool is not open for swimming yet.

The replacement pump is supposed to run at 18 amps at 120 volts, it is drawing 27amps with a running voltage of 110volts. So needless to say the GFCI circuit breaker is tripping after 5 minutes of run time.

I have some theories on why it could me overloaded.
The impellor is seizing?
The pump is over sized and pushing to much water through the plumbing, causing it to possibly put strain on the impellor and motor?

I am up for your thought's on this.

Dave already hit most of the points I was going to make. I may explain it in a little different manner though. Centrifugal fans and pumps are not loaded by the pressure on the output, they are loaded by the amount of media being moved (water in your case). Think of it this way - which takes more work to accomplish moving 10 gallons a minute or 100 gallons a minute? pressure does not make any significant difference, volume moved does. Maybe as suggested this pump had been replaced with one with different characteristics then the original. Same horsepower but higher speed will mean it will be loaded harder as it is trying to move more volume.

Find a valve to throttle down the amount of water being pushed.

Are you sure the replacement is a new pump or could it be used?

Do you know if the replacement pump motor is the same HP and RPM as the old?

An over sized pump motor won't pull too many amps but an undersized one will. A pump pushing water against a closed valve will pull less amps than it will when the valve is open. There needs to be enough back pressure to keep the pump from trying to move too much water.

Thank you all for your input. I will talk with the pool owner and share your thoughts with him to relay to the pool guy.

Side note: Originally the pool guy told the owner it wasn't his problem, the electrician needs to install a higher amperage circuit breaker.:happyno:

Hopefully we can find a solution to this problem.
Thanks again!

Ask pool guy if he will guarantee that motor will not burn out if you do what he proposes? Because it will, but I think you are well aware of that.

ETA: A same sized HP motor and same speed could also be overloaded if the pump itself has different characteristics so you need to look at the pump characteristics as well as speed and HP.