no e.c.g.

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
boyle78

boyle78

Senior Member
Location
new hampshire
We just started a job in an existing greenhouse that has no ecg's in the pipes...infact, there is no ecg in the mdp. All the prior work done was in rigid using the pipe it's self as a ground. I would think that in a perfect world we would/should redo the mdp to something more modern. If there is no ground bar in the mdp, what should be done as far as a egc? A number of electricians in the past have just started an egc in thier newly installed subpanels. We are infact installing a new subpanel that is tapped off an older 1 phase sub and doing just that.
My question is in the grand scheme of things should the mbp be replaced and egc's be pulled through any or all the pipes? I feel like something is wrong with the install, but I just don't know how to back it up.
 
brian john said:
Per the NEC you have a ECG the conduit.
Click to expand...
Just for fun.

250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination of the following:

(2) Rigid metal conduit.
Click to expand...
 
Usually dont need to look far in old buildings to find some pipe pulled apart.50 set screws all thight,lock nut tight,every required strap.Not happening in Tampa.
 
Jim, you know I have always been on your side here. Two years ago we bid high as we didn't need the work. T&M the EGC still goes in the 250.118 approved conduit.

Today on a contract feeder, I'm rethinking this. Fuel or $400 for an EGC? I don't know.
 
Rigid pipe unless all coupling are are thread less set screw I doubt if properly installed it will come apart. Personally I like copper grounds, JUST MY THING.
 
Just a thought

Just a thought

brian john said:
Rigid pipe unless all coupling are are thread less set screw......
Click to expand...

I'm wondering, being that this is a greenhouse, moisture and such, if the threads on the threaded couplings would, over time, corrode. Was something like deox applied to the threads when it was instaled?

A concern or not?
 
Friz...I didn't see any compound on any of the compression fittings. The 400 amp main panel has no ground bar to speak of...just a neutral bar. There is continuity between the neut. and the pipe.
 
chris kennedy said:
Jim, you know I have always been on your side here. Two years ago we bid high as we didn't need the work. T&M the EGC still goes in the 250.118 approved conduit.

Today on a contract feeder, I'm rethinking this. Fuel or $400 for an EGC? I don't know.
Click to expand...

I know things are going south here too.We are having layoffs and my boss was always a use copper type guy but now seeing aluminum to keep price down.Untill he says no ground wire i still pull it.Future in Tampa is not looking good.We are seeing jobs put on hold because market is very poor.I would submit bid both ways.Being the low bidder doesnt always win the job.
 
brian john said:
Rigid pipe unless all coupling are are thread less set screw I doubt if properly installed it will come apart. Personally I like copper grounds, JUST MY THING.
Click to expand...

It's my thing too as long as someone else is paying for it. :smile:
 
boyle78 said:
Friz...I didn't see any compound on any of the compression fittings. The 400 amp main panel has no ground bar to speak of...just a neutral bar. There is continuity between the neut. and the pipe.
Click to expand...


There was probably no need for an EG bus/bar in the panel...especially if the install is metallic raceways and possibly AC cables.

You can install a ground bar in the panel, as the raceway is a permitted means of a EGC.
If you are so concerned, there may possibly be room in the raceway to install an additional conductor for the purpose of it being an EGC.

There are most likely millions of installs that exist today as you have detailed.
 
I always like a ground wire as I dont trust piping as my sole conductor..we are talking RMC correct..

If in a green house I would suspect it is a wet location if it has an auto sprinkler in it..Then it would needs to meet 344.10(D) Wet Locations. All supports, bolts, straps, screws, and so forth, shall be of corrosion-resistant materials or protected against corrosion by corrosion-resistant materials.

Now it is not specific but would that include the exsposed threads.
 
boyle78 said:
Friz...I didn't see any compound on any of the compression fittings. The 400 amp main panel has no ground bar to speak of...just a neutral bar. There is continuity between the neut. and the pipe.
Click to expand...


The "main Panel", if it is the service, DOES have a ground bar. It is the ground/neutral bar just like in any other main service! There will be a Main Bonding Jumper that will connect the Ground/Neutral bar to the can. There are just no GROUNDING CONDUCTORS installed on the ground/neutral bar because the pipes are the grounding conductors. This was permitted by the NEC, it is still permitted by the NEC, and will probably always be permitted by the NEC. Does the installer need to be careful to maintain the continuity of the pipe? Of course. If wire is used, the continuity of the ground wires has to be maintained. I have seen pipe poorly installed and maintained and the ground return path was questionable. I have also seen poorly and improperly installed copper wire grounding conductors. Poor workmanship is poor workmanship and an installer that is determined to screw something up will always find a way to do so. Don't look for problems where they don't exist.
 
haskindm said:
The "main Panel", if it is the service, DOES have a ground bar. It is the ground/neutral bar just like in any other main service! There will be a Main Bonding Jumper that will connect the Ground/Neutral bar to the can. There are just no GROUNDING CONDUCTORS installed on the ground/neutral bar because the pipes are the grounding conductors. This was permitted by the NEC, it is still permitted by the NEC, and will probably always be permitted by the NEC. Does the installer need to be careful to maintain the continuity of the pipe? Of course. If wire is used, the continuity of the ground wires has to be maintained. I have seen pipe poorly installed and maintained and the ground return path was questionable. I have also seen poorly and improperly installed copper wire grounding conductors. Poor workmanship is poor workmanship and an installer that is determined to screw something up will always find a way to do so. Don't look for problems where they don't exist.
Click to expand...


That is a very good point..
 
Thanks for all the responses...I was second guessing our install, and there seems to be nothing to get worked up about. I have continuity between my existing pipes, new panel tub, and my new ground bar. I have my full voltage across hot and ground making me think that I have a good grounding system. All of the new pipes we are running have an ecg conductor. We weren't sent there to change the whole building, just what we bid.
It's amazing how someone can second guess themselves when questioned by others for the work they are doing. (of course one of the guys questioning me says he can put five 90's in a pipe run if the pipe is oversized) LOL that wasn't a personal dig or anything Mike!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top