No fuse/breaker required for fire alarm?

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stockexpert

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Is it true that the NFPA does not allow a fuse or circuit breaker on the circuit that supplies the fire alarm control panel?
 
stockexpert said:
Is it true that the NFPA does not allow a fuse or circuit breaker on the circuit that supplies the fire alarm control panel?
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If so I guess i've done that wrong for years.
I thought you just needed a lock on device. If the panel is battery backed-up then it will alarm that power is out.
 
stockexpert said:
Is it true that the NFPA does not allow a fuse or circuit breaker on the circuit that supplies the fire alarm control panel?
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Circuit to be dedicated.

Not more than 20 amps.

Breaker colored red and labled.

In New Jersey, it has to be locked in the "on" position.

All of this is off the top of my head, so some details may be off.

You (or your source) may be thinking about fire pumps which kinda sorta operate that way. Overcurrent protection has to be at 3x the locked rotor current, which means if you jam the pump for any length of time, it's toast (literally).
 
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gadfly56 said:
Circuit to be dedicated.

Not more than 20 amps.

Breaker colored red and labled.

In New Jersey, it has to be locked in the "on" position.

All of this is off the top of my head, so some details may be off.

You (or your source) may be thinking about fire pumps which kinda sorta operate that way. Overcurrent protection has to be at 3x the locked rotor current, which means if you jam the pump for any length of time, it's toast (literally).
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where is this code info found, all except the NEW JERSEY code. ??
 
2008 NEC

gadfly56 said:
Circuit to be dedicated.
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760.121(B)

gadfly56 said:
Not more than 20 amps.
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760.127

gadfly56 said:
Breaker colored red and labled.
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760.124, does not specify red breaker but that seems to be the standard way of meeting 'plainly visible'

gadfly56 said:
In New Jersey, it has to be locked in the "on" position..
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I can not find that one but it is required here in MA and RI as well.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I can see it confusing some who identify emergency circuits red in color.
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Here red is the color used to identify fire alarm raceways, enclosures and equipment. I believe that is even required here.

We typically use orange to identify emergency circuits.

So how do you make the overcurrent device 'plainly visible' as required by 760.124? :smile:
 
We identify Fire Alarm circuit breakers the same as all other circuit breakers, at the panel directory.

760.124 does not require the circuit breaker to be red in color.


Read 760.124, and read 760.121, including the FPN.
.124 is not dealing with circuit identification, but the equipment that is supplying the low voltage side(PLFA),
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
.124 is not dealing with circuit identification, but the equipment that is supplying the low voltage side(PLFA),
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Your right, but I will not be able to sell that to the fire dept. :smile:
 
iwire said:
Your right, but I will not be able to sell that to the fire dept. :smile:
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Fire Marshals/departments are a whole different situation. I can say that as an electrical inspector, if I do not develop a good relationship with them, then we will most likely cross paths quite a bit.
At that point, I will support an EC...which is not always a winning battle.


I have been invited to speak with the County Fire Inspectors meeting in a couple of months...that should be an interesting event.
 
In NYC we can not use breakers at all. we are to install a fused cut out box painted red with ''fire alarm fuse cut out ''labeled on the box. The box must be mounted with in 5ft of the main feed and tapped of the line side. Must use a 15 amp fuse and a solid copper nuetral bar.

Circuit breaker/ fuse cutout they are both a means of disconnect for the fire alarm panel to be powered down safely.


Kev
 
iwire said:
Originally Posted by gadfly56
Breaker colored red and labled.

760.124, does not specify red breaker but that seems to be the standard way of meeting 'plainly visible'
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NFPA 72 (2002)
4.4.1.4.2.2 Circuit disconnecting means shall have a red marking, shall be accessible only to authorized personnel, and shall be identified as ?FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT.?

As a side note, I have been assured by a member of the NFPA committee that is in charge of NFPA 72 that your installation can be failed if the label does not say, in all caps, exactly "FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT".

iwire said:
Originally Posted by gadfly56
In New Jersey, it has to be locked in the "on" position..

I can not find that one but it is required here in MA and RI as well.
Click to expand...

NFPA 72 (2002)
4.4.1.4.2.1 The dedicated branch circuit(s) and connections shall be mechanically protected.
 
Two fire alarm jobs, same county, same year, both colleges, one wanted red breakers , the other never mentioned it. I'm on Long Island we try to use orange for any emergency circuits, and red for fire alarm boxes, I've seen blue for emergency systems also though. p.s. we use hobby paint and a brush, fun fun fun
 
gadfly56 said:
NFPA 72 (2002)
4.4.1.4.2.2 Circuit disconnecting means shall have a red marking, shall be accessible only to authorized personnel, and shall be identified as ?FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT.?

As a side note, I have been assured by a member of the NFPA committee that is in charge of NFPA 72 that your installation can be failed if the label does not say, in all caps, exactly "FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT".



NFPA 72 (2002)
4.4.1.4.2.1 The dedicated branch circuit(s) and connections shall be mechanically protected.
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I agree with most of this, however, I can tell you that I won't fail an installation if the word "circuit" is not included, or if it's not all in caps. I figure if you skip the word circuit you can fit in bigger font size on you r label. I also won't demand a red OCP. I probably should, looking at the NFPA opinion above, maybe I'm too easy, but if you have done a decent job of getting the point across and getting red involved in a reasonable manner, I feel you have satisfied the requirement. I have approved a nice red label immediately adjacent to the breaker along with the legend also labelled properly. As far as conduit or j boxes, paint the covers red, or label them neatly in text and I am happy as well. :grin:

And, I will require the little lock out clip.

Mike
 
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