No Grounding on Panel, OK with NEC?

ponderosa

Member
Location
Oregon, Ohio
Occupation
Program Manager
Electrical service was installed in 1973. Panels are not grounded, just tied to utility neutral. Owner claims this was up to code when installed. My assumption is that the panels were bonded to water pipes at some point but then removed when water pipes were changed out. Is it accurate to assume the NEC required panels to be grounded in 1973?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Electrical service was installed in 1973. Panels are not grounded, just tied to utility neutral. Owner claims this was up to code when installed. My assumption is that the panels were bonded to water pipes at some point but then removed when water pipes were changed out. Is it accurate to assume the NEC required panels to be grounded in 1973?
All metal parts of an electrical system must be grounded. The main service which usually includes the meter base up to the main service panel are bonded to the neutral of the power company . Once the conductors leave the main panel then the neutral and grounds are run separately.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Electrical service was installed in 1973. Panels are not grounded, just tied to utility neutral. Owner claims this was up to code when installed. My assumption is that the panels were bonded to water pipes at some point but then removed when water pipes were changed out. Is it accurate to assume the NEC required panels to be grounded in 1973?
What do you mean by "not grounded"? Is there no connection to a grounding electrode or is the MBJ missing or something else?
 

ponderosa

Member
Location
Oregon, Ohio
Occupation
Program Manager
All metal parts of an electrical system must be grounded. The main service which usually includes the meter base up to the main service panel are bonded to the neutral of the power company . Once the conductors leave the main panel then the neutral and grounds are run separately.

What do you mean by "not grounded"? Is there no connection to a grounding electrode or is the MBJ missing or something else?
No connection to a grounding electrode.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Welcome to the forum.

We need to now your professional electrical involvement to now how to respond.

Simply, there is no separate grounding conductor ahead of the service.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Is it accurate to assume the NEC required panels to be grounded in 1973?
The 1971 NEC would have been the code in effect in Oregon and a metal underground water pipe where available having 10 feet in contact with the dirt was permitted to serve as the only electrode if no other qualifying electrodes are/were present.
If it was less than 10 feet long or removed then a supplemental electrode was required 1971 NEC 250-81
Please post a photo of the panel in question.
Welcome to the forum
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
No connection to a grounding electrode.
Yes a connection to a grounding electrode was required in 1973. Back then it was almost always a metal water pipe being used as the sole electrode. If the main bonding jumper is installed then the system is likely grounded just not correctly.
 

hornetd

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician, Retired
Electrical service was installed in 1973. Panels are not grounded, just tied to utility neutral. Owner claims this was up to code when installed. My assumption is that the panels were bonded to water pipes at some point but then removed when water pipes were changed out. Is it accurate to assume the NEC required panels to be grounded in 1973?
Which panels are you writing about. What do you mean when you say Grounding? Is there no Grounding Electrode System? Are the panels the Service Equipment? Is there a main breaker in each of those panels? Are the panels supplied from the same set of conductors? If you take photographs of the panels that show the entire panel with the covers off and one of all of the Service Equipment at once were we can see all of the wires that come in from the utility supply and all the wires going out of the equipment to the various loads that we could comment much more effectively.

Tom Horne
 

ponderosa

Member
Location
Oregon, Ohio
Occupation
Program Manager
Does the meter base have the GEC
I don't have first-hand knowledge
Which panels are you writing about. What do you mean when you say Grounding? Is there no Grounding Electrode System? Are the panels the Service Equipment? Is there a main breaker in each of those panels? Are the panels supplied from the same set of conductors? If you take photographs of the panels that show the entire panel with the covers off and one of all of the Service Equipment at once were we can see all of the wires that come in from the utility supply and all the wires going out of the equipment to the various loads that we could comment much more effectively.

Tom Horne
Thank you! I will get photos
 
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