No grounds in electrical outlet box

[ActionDave]

So you’re saying a GF I would be ok even if there is no ECG present within the circuit

Last time I tried that I had to find a job in a different city

 

[Joethemechanic]

I ran a home office in my grandmother's barn in a room that had K&T and an E26 porcelin "wall socket" with a two prong adapter screwed into it. Not to mention a fuse box and not a breaker panel. Home offices don't normally have any crazy electrical requirements

 

[Joethemechanic]

Well the buyer wants peace of mind

Just install the GFCI and tell him you installed a special "Bluetooth" grounding system

 

[ELA]

When "floating" the ground on a device that has a grounding conductor present consider how that might compromise EMI protections.
Some equipment incorporating EMI filters ( Some Surge Protectors etc) utilize Class Y line-to-ground capacitors for common mode EMI suppression. Those devices rely on the grounding conductor's presence for maximum effectiveness.
The circuit is one cap from line to ground and another from neutral to ground. These form a voltage divider from line to neutral with the center point then grounded.
If one plugs such devices into an outlet without a ground present, any grounded metal surface on the device ( refrigerator for example) can then rise up to 1/2 the line voltage (with respect to ground). The capacitors used are usually a very small capacitance value and thus the impedance at 60hz is high enough that the shock current level is minimal, should the metal surface were touched. The common mode protection is compromised without the ground present.
It could certainly be cause for concern if the voltage from metal case to ground were measured at 60V.

 

[NEC Inspector]

That still doesn’t protect the equipment though? There’s no EGC present

A GFCI does not need an EGC to operate. The current goes through the outlet on the "hot" side, and the outlet measures how much power goes out. If all of that power does not come back through the neutral side of the outlet, the GFCI knows that some of the power went somewhere it shouldn't and trips. The EGC is not involved at all.

You can't trip test an ungrounded GFCI outlet with a normal plug tester, but the GFCI will still work in any safety scenario.

I had a bunch of old laptop chargers and printer power supplies that I cut open to see where the grounds went. Three wire plug and cord, grounds went nowhere. Not connected to anything

I encountered the same thing on a shop-vac I repaired. The cord had a ground in it, but it wasn't attached to anything inside the vacuum. All exposed parts are plastic, so the ground isn't needed except that OSHA guys get wound up if everything on the jobsite isn't three-prong. (Electricity is not necessarily their strong suit...)

 

[tortuga]

What can I do to ensure the buyer is protected and will be safe with his equipment

While I generally agree with the others you can in general use a GFCI to supplement two prongs in the majority of receptacles in a home, if your a licensed insured contractor and want to CYA I would pay attention to the list in 250.114, as I bet personal injury lawyers do.
Certain appliances / products with exposed, normally non-current-carrying metal parts are always required to be connected to an equipment ground for residential occupancy it would include:

• Refrigerators, freezers, kitchen waste disposers, ranges, dishwashers
• Clothes-washers, clothes-dryers
• Air conditioners
• Information technology equipment, as in computers monitors etc that have a 3-prong cord.
• Aquarium equipment
• Sump pumps
• There is a list of outdoor lawn & garden related equipment that would probably cover any outdoor receptacle.

For lighting The wording in 410 has changed slightly over the years but the general requirement light fixtures with exposed conductive parts don't have the GFCI exception and have to be connected to an equipment grounding conductor, there is a gfci exception for ones that do not have exposed conductive parts, this probably would be most critical in damp and wet locations.

For hard wired appliances, motors, furnaces, and HVAC the respective code articles and manufacturers instructions probably require a EGC.

 

[WD40]

You can run an individual EGC to the boxes in question that absolutely need a ground (see 250.114 for a list of what must be grounded). See 250.130 for where you can connect that separate retrofit EGC for a circuit. Ask homeowner which things he has that actually have a ground prong on their power cord. So many things today do not. This could also be a case where you end up using all those "GFCI protected - No Equipment Ground" stickers that come in a GFCI receptacle box if you change his 2 prongers to 3.

I've had multiple houses from the mid 60's that had a mix of grounded and ungrounded NM cable. Many times the EGC was folded back behind the cable and outside of the box as Joe Villani indicated. The bugger was many electricians twisted those together so you can't pull them back into the box (or you can at least get a short bit of it before it breaks off). I only had to run EGC to a few boxes and was able to ground most things between the EGCs I could fish back into the box and running some #12 green to a few strategic boxes.

Also pay attention to 406.4(D) if you change out any receptacle. That change out requires the receptacle to be brought to current rules for AFCI, GFCI, TR, WR, etc.

I thought 406.4(D) was an exception to 250.114, in other words I can put a residential fridge on a GFCI with no equiment ground?

 

[Joe.B]

I thought 406.4(D) was an exception to 250.114, in other words I can put a residential fridge on a GFCI with no equiment ground?

The electrician can replace a non-grounding type receptacle with a GFCI receptacle BUT they must be "marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground," visible after installation."

From there it's up to the user (homeowner, landlord, appliance installer, etc.) to read the directions of the product they are connecting. If the device (refrigerator, computer, or whatever) instructions say that it can only be connected to a grounded receptacle then it would be a violation to do as you suggest.

 

[winnie]

As @ELA describes, there are certainly systems where the EGC is an important part of equipment protection.

It might also be important for surge suppression operation or connected equipment warranty.

But many modern home office devices (laptops, routers, printers, etc ) have 2 wire cords and don't even have a way to use the EGC.

The buyer should be strategic about where they really need receptacles with an EGC. For those, don't even bother trying to retrofit an EGC. Just run a complete new circuit.

 

[Eddie702]

If it's NM, check behind the cable clamps

In my area the practice at that time was to wrap the equipment ground around the cable sheath and place under the clamp

That was very common in my area have seen that done all the time. Old timer told me at one time that thought it was safer to keep the ground outside the box LOL

 

[readydave8]

Well the buyer wants peace of mind

Peace of mind no problem he can have anything he wants if request is accompanied with check, cash, card, or money order

 

[Joethemechanic]

Peace of mind

Whenever I hear customers or whoever talk aboup "peace of mind" it always means that they want to hire some idiot to put his fingers into something, and replace parts, components, or materials with substandard replacements, and have said hired idiot do a hack job of it.
The level of "peace of mind" that they get is dirrectly in proportion to how much money it costs

 

[Fred B]

Obviously the home being built in 1966 is grandfathered in so I can’t do a whole home rewire to each outlet. What can I do?

Why not? I re-wire for new buyers all the time. If they want it, and it would be code compliant when completed and they are willing to pay for it give them what they want. I also will get them that want a pre-purchase quote that they will just use it for a reduction on the purchase price, so will charge them for the evaluation and quote.

If quoting for this remember blind fishing wire while maintaining minimal wall damage will take much more labor that fully open wall. Expect the unexpected such as cross support, windows or doors that had been moved, Beams Etc, in the line of fishing route.

 

[readydave8]

Fishing can be frustrating

But many times electrical is the only thing going on, I'd rather fish existing building than deal with GC and other trades on new construction

 

[WD40]

So looking at 250.130(C) you guys just fish in a green #12 form the basement or drill out an exterior wall?

 

[Joethemechanic]

If he just wants a ground for bragging rights, maybe he might want one of these chemical rods so he can hook up to the earth solidly

 

[Joethemechanic]

 

[LarryFine]

My choice would be to run new circuits to the spots where he wants to plug something in that he insists has a need for an EGC and leave everything else alone.

This is exactly what I recommend for homes with knob-and-tube wiring, etc.