No Main Breaker

[MJRobinson]

Howdy,

I came across this residence with an older panel with no main.

I can't tell what size panel it is? 125A or 200A. I have an SMA 7.0 that requires a 40A OCPD.

 

[ggunn]

Howdy,

I came across this residence with an older panel with no main.

I can't tell what size panel it is? 125A or 200A. I have an SMA 7.0 that requires a 40A OCPD.


View attachment 20248

Assuming that it's fed by service conductors, since it's an MLO panel the 120% rule does not apply unless you install a main breaker. Anything you land in that panel as it is would be a supply side interconnection. It's a bit scary/ugly/old, though.

 

[charlie b]

I believe there is an issue with the "six throws of the hand" rule. Well, well, whatever will you do about that?

 

[kwired]

right now it only has five handles - so you can add one more - presuming it is suitable for use as service equipment without a single main breaker. many "loadcenters" require the main breaker before they are suitable for use as service equipment - see instructions - if they are still readable.

 

[MJRobinson]

Assuming that it's fed by service conductors, since it's an MLO panel the 120% rule does not apply unless you install a main breaker. Anything you land in that panel as it is would be a supply side interconnection. It's a bit scary/ugly/old, though.

Nice...and "Hot".

Thanks,

Michael

 

[ggunn]

right now it only has five handles - so you can add one more - presuming it is suitable for use as service equipment without a single main breaker. many "loadcenters" require the main breaker before they are suitable for use as service equipment - see instructions - if they are still readable.

Even if there were six handles already a PV breaker does not count as a seventh. Mr. Holt has video on the subject and I used it to convince my local AHJ of this.

 

[kwired]

Even if there were six handles already a PV breaker does not count as a seventh. Mr. Holt has video on the subject and I used it to convince my local AHJ of this.

Well then if he adds PV he still has ability to add one more later:thumbsup:

 

[jaggedben]

That panel may have had a label that says no more than six handles, in which case Mike's argument wouldn't sway. It's more debatable when the situation is disconnects tapping off a gutter.

 

[kwired]

That panel may have had a label that says no more than six handles, in which case Mike's argument wouldn't sway. It's more debatable when the situation is disconnects tapping off a gutter.

With "loadcenters" and at least more recent (past 25 years) models, I find it more common to see label stating it is only suitable for use as service equipment when supplied via a main breaker or something to that effect.

Seen the suitable for use as service equipment when no more then six devices are installed wording more often on things like I line panels more so then on "load centers".

 

[jaggedben]

For what it's worth, my experience differs, I see the 'not more than six handles' wording on lots of 'loadcenter' labels, at least if they are 12 spaces or less.

The point is, it's a pretty sure bet that the panel in the OP's picture either had the six-handle limit labeled (when the label was all still there), or it has been improperly installed or modified.

 

[kwired]

For what it's worth, my experience differs, I see the 'not more than six handles' wording on lots of 'loadcenter' labels, at least if they are 12 spaces or less.

The point is, it's a pretty sure bet that the panel in the OP's picture either had the six-handle limit labeled (when the label was all still there), or it has been improperly installed or modified.

Fair enough. Most my experience when investigating this kind of issue has been with Square D loadcenters. If you read instructions, most of them require a main breaker if used as service equipment. I suppose other brands may be different, and older units could be different then newer units as well.

 

[pv_n00b]

This might be an acceptable multi-disconnect service entrance, at least when it was installed 20 years ago. I would be concerned about an interconnection to it because the inspector, looking at this panel, will probably require it to be replaced. It looks to be in poor condition and unsafe. Maybe you can fix it up, put in a blank over the open CB position, and clean the critters out. Looks like one CB is off so maybe you have an unused circuit you can reuse.