No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

[pierre]

I was walking around the complex I live in the other day (trying to shed a few holiday pounds ) and I saw some terrible work. I also saw the person in charge of maintenance. I asked him who did the electrical work for the complex and he said he did - ouch! I said to him that an electrician should be performing the work and his reply was that he was saving us money and trying to keep his job over all the years - more ouch!. I told him some of the work was terrible and that he should think of hiring an electrician to fix it. His answer was he has six months left to retirement, would I not say anything to management until he retires That is the me, myself, I do not care about anyone else attitude.

This work is some of what Joe Tedesco is trying to dissuade via code changes. I say the only way this can be reduced is to have the insurance companies perform visual inspections every year or two like the fire department does in municipalities.
Eventually, the result is the management would not hire companies that fail the inspections and less work would go to those who see the codes as something to avoid.

Just a thought!!!

Pierre

 

[iwire]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

I agree with you 100% Pierre, I think the insurance company's have a much greater influence on building owners than the NEC.

When was the last time an NEC violation resulted in money out of the building owners pocket.

The few times I have been called into clean up poor work that was "in use working" was only because an insurance company was telling the building owners they must.

 

[bennie]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

You have to think about the interest of insurance companies. Too many claims and they will go broke. To little claims and they will also go broke from decline in sales. Reduced risk, means consumers will stop buying insurance.

Insurance is a legal protection racket. They do not want the elimination of risks.

Think of a world with no crime, the police would have to create some to keep their job.

 

[iwire]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Bennie I understand what you are saying, no risk, no need for insurance.

My homeowners insurance made me fix my front steps.

Some insurance company's will not insure houses with fuses (I know it is stupid)

I spent 5-6 years working at an amusement park believe me the insurance company had great influence in what was repaired.

Once a year an independent inspector paid for by the insurance company would be out and make a list of you "shall" fix items.

The local AHJ could not do this.

[ January 04, 2004, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[tonyi]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

If insurance companies sent out inspectors, a lot of people would be sleeping temporary housing tomorrow

Just driving around I kinda look at places and just what you see in services entrances is scary sometimes.

 

[roger]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Tony,

If insurance companies sent out inspectors, a lot of people would be sleeping temporary housing tomorrow

as Iwire points out, they do.

One of their biggest reasons to cancel a policy is if you have a forbidden breed of dog.

Many commercial establishments, depending on what they are, see these inspectors on a fairly regular basis.


Roger

 

[tonyi]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

I know about the fuse box thing, that's a common issue for a lot of insurance companies. If the type-S have been fitted, I don't see a problem, but if there's ordinary edison's still there, and its a rental property, then there's a problem...I've seen plenty of 25-30A fuses on #14 wire.

My point is the people they may send out to look at ordinary residences don't know much about electric and can't tell what's dangerous. Just the other day I drove by a place with about 15' of SE just dangling from a weather head down to the meter with no straps (siding guys never strapped it back up probably) - a good breeze will have it moving around and fatiguing.

IMO, physical liabilities are something insurance companies understand well and will react fast to, bad railings, rotten decks/stairs, vicious animals, etc. The condition of a place's electric takes longer to evaluate (in a thorough manner).

 

[jimwalker]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Should one visit any of the local flea markets around here they would find hundreds of open violations.Sad part is most of the venders have no insurance,and no idea just how big a firetrap they are renting.
Insurance companies could do them self a big favor and hire electricians to inspect every thing they have a policy on.
A lot of the house violations are hidden in ceiling,behind walls and under crawl spaces

[ January 04, 2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[iwire]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Originally posted by tonyi:
The condition of a place's electric takes longer to evaluate (in a thorough manner).

Yes, that is true, they can not send out a insurance agent for this inspection.

At the amusement park the inspector used was an independent contractor and he would be there for 2 to 5 days, yes he would report on broken railings but he would also report on electrical items that needed attention.

Going from your general posts here I think you would be very impressed in the details of the reports.

There was different levels of actions required.

1)Ride not to be opened until corrective action taken and documented.

2)Take action before next inspection

3)No action required but suggested.

I do not know if Pierre meant for this to apply to private housing units, I would not want that.

But for all commercial properties including rental units I think it would help a lot.

This guy could come out and say "That cord is chafed and needs replacing" the local AHJ could not do the same.

[ January 04, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[brian john]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

In our area companies get a break on their insurance for having an IR scan completed. Not for making the repairs noted in the scan, but just for the scan. One company was denied a claim, because ia discrepancy that was noted in a scan was ignored, till the gear blew. Very Costly out of pocket expense.

Companies also get a break from the insurance companies for performing preventative maintenance on their distribution gear.

 

[roger]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Brian, a big insurance requirement in this area is Breaker testing on breakers above 1000 amps as well as the IR scan.

Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Bob
My statement was general for two purposes.
1. Insurance companies will get the reaction that officials may be afraid to try or do not care to as it is too much paperwork.

2. The workers for the management companies are some of the worst trained/educated that I have come across. As well their boss has them trained to keep to a small budget.

I have been working for a management company for ten years. This year we completed hundreds of thousands of dollars of insurance required work that I have been telling the owner about for years. Including other work on the two buildings, over $1,000,000 of work.
There is no way he would have done this on my account. No, I did not call the insurance company

Pierre

Bennie
we can work for years before the insurance companies would run out of the work and lose customers.

 

[lazorko]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Human nature can't be changed with a code revision. Most of us (despite what we would like to be) are creatures of here-and-now comfort. My business has used ads selling specific electrical services to consumers - the ones that always succeed sell convenience and comfort (A/C and fans in summer, eg.) while the safety-oriented ads (smoke detector systems) always fail miserably.

Saving money NOW is a bigger motivator for most people than saving money in the future; wiring repairs are always easier to sell after a catastrophic failure than while things are still working.

That is why amateur wiring will always be a problem, and professionals will spend a large part of time fixing failures.

 

[romex jockey]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

i really love that post of yours Bennie, it insinuates that fear sells, which it does in fact do quite well.

i can think of much legislation, many codes, many safety implementations which arose from a kneejerk action can't you?

the problem is, opportunists gather like buzzards around a dumpsite knowing fear , or rather thier application of it, clouds reason.

the cost/benifit is arguable as to it's true target...

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: No Problem - I am Retiring in 6 Months

Rj what it comes down to is the almighty $