No, this is not legal

Status
Not open for further replies.
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Occupation
Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
This comes up on the board from time to time. I also see it regularly on jobs. You can not use #14 on a 20 amp branch circuit. Example would be a 14-2 switch leg feeding a light fixture fed from a 20 amp circuit. :)
 
Re: No, this is not legal

I agree regarding a switch leg, I just don't agree with it as a blanket statement. Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of the original statement.
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
This comes up on the board from time to time. I also see it regularly on jobs. You can not use #14 on a 20 amp branch circuit. Example would be a 14-2 switch leg feeding a light fixture fed from a 20 amp circuit. :)
Click to expand...
I think I'm two steps behind on this (like most things.) Why would someone believe it was okay in the first place? (It sounds like I don't know a clever code interpretation or something...?) I follow the bouncing ball to 210.19(A)(4), which grants fixtures immunity, but I'm confuzzled.
:confused:
 
Re: No, this is not legal

I wondered who would be first in line to straighten me out! I thought my statement was too vague which is the reason for my example.(Couldn't think of a clear way to make my point) To say not allowed ever is certainly overstating a bit. I am specifically talking about general branch circuit wiring that is not specified in specific instances or exceptions. Another example would be pigtailing a piece of #14 to a #12 circuit conductor to connect a receptacle such as in a kitchen or bathroom. Am I making any sense at all? :(
 
Re: No, this is not legal

So you're stranded on a desert island, with only a couple 6" pieces of 14, and you need to tail off for a 20 amp outlet. That's your analogy?

Right, that's not legal. You're pointing out that the #14 piece will burn before the 20 amp breaker protects it, right?

I was originally picturing 12 in and out of a box, and a dainty 14 comes out for the light overhead... :)
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Go to 210.19(A)(4)Exception #1. My read is that this allows taps not smaller than #14 for circuits rated less than 40 amps. But the conditions seem pretty few and far between to me.

And, if you're stranded on a desert island with 6" of 14-2 NM, you are SOL, since you need 6" of wire at the box to connect your device (300.14)....not to mention being stranded with nothin but wire.
 
Re: No, this is not legal

"And, if you're stranded on a desert island with 6" of 14-2 NM, you are SOL, since you need 6" of wire at the box to connect your device (300.14)....not to mention being stranded with nothin but wire."
Just go to big orange and buy some.If that desert island has electric power it probably has a big orange too ;)
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Iggy read the exceptions. Receptacle outlets are specifically mentioned. George does this island use the NEC? People still pigtaill 20 amp circuits with #14 to connect to receptacles. It is not compliant. And yes I am also talking about 12 in an out of a box and a dainty 14 going out to a light. That is not compliant either.
 
Re: No, this is not legal

I hope Mike doesn't get mad for me posting his images, but here is one that addresses this.

210-19dx1c.gif


Roger
 
Re: No, this is not legal

My "stranded on a desert island" was my way of saying, if you're pulling 12 wire off a roll, why the heck would you throw a piece of 14 in the circuit? In the rough you've got wire all over the place, on a desert island all you get is empty beer bottles.

I hope that's clearer. We're all with you (I think) on this... :)
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Originally posted by iggy2:
And, if you're stranded on a desert island with 6" of 14-2 NM, you are SOL, since you need 6" of wire at the box to connect your device (300.14)
Click to expand...
Doesn't this say cables/conductors entering the box need to be 6" long, not my pigtails? (And before you start, I get blasted all the time for leaving my wires too long! Company policy is, 6" from the face of the box, and I add 3" to that! :D )
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Why would anyone even think of using #14 as a pigtail on #12 ?
Click to expand...
The folks who buy their receptacles at Home Depot and want to use the back-fed feature.

...which brings me to light switches. 210.19(A)(4) x- 1(c) says you can't do this on receptacles...does it say anywhere you can't do this on light switches? (ditto above....the Home Depot crowd).
 
Re: No, this is not legal

Iggy read the exceptions. Receptacle outlets are specifically mentioned.
Click to expand...
That's my point. There doesn't seem to be any 'real' applications or use of these exceptions, and of course no receptacles.
 
Re: No, this is not legal

I remember teaching this to a group down in southern Utah. There were about 100 people there for the lecture, and I would say that 25% thought it was legal to use 14 AWG on a 20 amp circuit for a switch leg, calling it "fixture wires". There are a lot of people who mistakenly think this is legal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top