Noark molded case circuit breakers

[LMAO]

Has anyone had any experience with Noark MCCBs, up to 600A, 65KA at 480V? Our vendor is coming out really aggressive (cost less than half Square D). Too good to be true???

 

[petersonra]

They are less expensive than Siemens as well.

The last pricing I got from them had 100A 3 pole MCCB for under $100, with lugs.

A 600A unit was under $700, under $1000 at 65kAIC.

I have not used them so I have no experience to share with you, but the rep for these things around here is pushing them too.

 

[Tony S]

Thanks,

I’ve just looked at the website and catalogue, they have a european base and CE approval. I’m looking for ten 400A MCCB’s, they could make one hell of a saving on the project.

Just a pity they only go up to 600A, I’d like the 1600A incomers to be the same manufacturer but economics dictate.

 

[jim dungar]

Thanks,

I’ve just looked at the website and catalogue, they have a european base and CE approval. I’m looking for ten 400A MCCB’s, they could make one hell of a saving on the project.

Just a pity they only go up to 600A, I’d like the 1600A incomers to be the same manufacturer but economics dictate.

CE does not approve anything. CE is a set of standards that manufacturers self-certify to.
For the most part, in the US, you will need breakers built and tested to UL489.

Very few, if any, 'European design' breakers mount in panelboards with busbars like you find in the US.

 

[Tony S]

CE does not approve anything. CE is a set of standards that manufacturers self-certify to.
For the most part, in the US, you will need breakers built and tested to UL489.

Very few, if any, 'European design' breakers mount in panelboards with busbars like you find in the US.

They give me another option which can’t be bad. Compatibility with UK standards is something I’ll have to look at. As I’m designing the MCCB housings the mountings and connections can be tailored to suit.

My first choice would be ABB MCCB’s but the total price is going to be eye watering. The panels original manufacturers are proving unhelpful, all they want to do is sell a complete package. Cost and downtime preclude that option.
If and it’s a big if, things come together, I’m planning to replace one incomer and six outgoing ways in a (long) day. That also includes the time needed for statutory testing, something you don’t have to contend with. On the next plant shutdown the other half of the board will be tackled.

On first seeing the board my reaction was “I can get that working as good as new”. Unfortunately the insurance company doesn’t agree with me. Dependant manual oil switches are all but outlawed here so they have to go.

 

[jim dungar]

Compatibility with UK standards is something I’ll have to look at.

Yeah 'CE compliant' sounds neat, but in end the you usually need to follow the standards of the country where the stuff is being installed.

 

[LMAO]

Correct me if I am wrong but "CE compliance" means nothing in terms of function, performance and reliability; it just means that manufacturer has reviewed the applicable CE directive(s) for that product and believes that the product is safe to operate.

What about UL489? I design my low voltage VFD enclosures per UL508A and again, I know that my UL listing means little in terms of performance and reliability; it is just a safety thing. What about UL489 regarding molded case circuit breakers...?

 

[petersonra]

Correct me if I am wrong but "CE compliance" means nothing in terms of function, performance and reliability; it just means that manufacturer has reviewed the applicable CE directive(s) for that product and believes that the product is safe to operate.

As I understand it, it means the product meets ALL the required standards, not just safety issues.

 

[GoldDigger]

Not necessarily true in this case, but "conforms to" a UL standard is often a red flag for a product that is not actually *listed*.

 

[Jraef]

Not necessarily true in this case, but "conforms to" a UL standard is often a red flag for a product that is not actually *listed*.

Bingo. It's a marketing spin trick often used by low-ballers that don't want to try to get them UL listed because it adds cost, or they are afraid they might not pass.

These things are made in China by Chint, a well known low ball price dumper with a really bad reputation in the US for selling things with really questionable designs and listing tactics . So what Chint did is to set up this new company in the Czech Republic and market them as if they are something new. Classic dodge technique.

I have been unable to find a program that can open their catalog files, so i can't see exactly what they say officially. But in one news feed on them, their UL listing is stated to be for some of the MCBs (Miniature Circuit Breakers), and specifically mentioned is ONE of their MCCBs, without mentioning which one, and UL listed as what and how. One trick they had used before (as Chint) was to UL list their MCCBs as Manual Motor Starters under UL508. It means they will have a UL bug on them, but you CANNOT use them as a "Circuit Breaker" here in the US, unless you ALSO have a real UL489 LISTED circuit breaker ahead of it. The problem is, a lot of distributor people are unable to understand the subtle differences and are taken in by the marketing and low pricing, then the burden falls on the buyers and users when a savvy inspector, who KNOWS the difference, red tags them in the field.

Tread very carefully here. When something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

 

[LMAO]

Bingo. It's a marketing spin trick often used by low-ballers that don't want to try to get them UL listed because it adds cost, or they are afraid they might not pass.

These things are made in China by Chint, a well known low ball price dumper with a really bad reputation in the US for selling things with really questionable designs and listing tactics . So what Chint did is to set up this new company in the Czech Republic and market them as if they are something new. Classic dodge technique.

I have been unable to find a program that can open their catalog files, so i can't see exactly what they say officially. But in one news feed on them, their UL listing is stated to be for some of the MCBs (Miniature Circuit Breakers), and specifically mentioned is ONE of their MCCBs, without mentioning which one, and UL listed as what and how. One trick they had used before (as Chint) was to UL list their MCCBs as Manual Motor Starters under UL508. It means they will have a UL bug on them, but you CANNOT use them as a "Circuit Breaker" here in the US, unless you ALSO have a real UL489 LISTED circuit breaker ahead of it. The problem is, a lot of distributor people are unable to understand the subtle differences and are taken in by the marketing and low pricing, then the burden falls on the buyers and users when a savvy inspector, who KNOWS the difference, red tags them in the field.

Tread very carefully here. When something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

I hereby resurrect this dead thread.

Their UL file number is E355392 (go here and type E355392 next to "UL File Number". it says The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 489, "Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches and Circuit-Breaker Enclosures." So it seems like they ARE suitable for UL508A applications, right?

 

[K8MHZ]

I hereby resurrect this dead thread.

Their UL file number is E355392 (go here and type E355392 next to "UL File Number". it says The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 489, "Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches and Circuit-Breaker Enclosures." So it seems like they ARE suitable for UL508A applications, right?

It depends.....

The appearance of a company's name or product in this database does not in itself assure that products so identified have been manufactured under UL's Follow-Up Service. Only those products bearing the UL Mark should be considered to be Certified and covered under UL's Follow-Up Service. Always look for the Mark on the product.

 

[MechEdetour]

Ask the manufacturer for the NOA and that should give you a high level of confidence as far as what configurations (catalog numbers) UL allows to bear the listing mark.