Non IC rated downlights

[champion]

Was doing some work in a customers attic and saw twelve low voltage (24v) recessed down lights installed in his living room ceiling. These can lights are not IC rated.
Each can light has its own transformer,- 120 to 24v.
I am concerned about insulation covering on these lights and am wondering if anything can be fabricated or purchased by myself to cover these lights for insulation covering.
The customer had these installed by a friend, and now that I had seen this, I really can't leave this guys attic without knowing that these fixtures are safe for installation covering.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thank You
Jim

 

[cselectric]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by champion:
Was doing some work in a customers attic and saw twelve low voltage (24v) recessed down lights installed in his living room ceiling. These can lights are not IC rated.
Each can light has its own transformer,- 120 to 24v.
I am concerned about insulation covering on these lights and am wondering if anything can be fabricated or purchased by myself to cover these lights for insulation covering.
The customer had these installed by a friend, and now that I had seen this, I really can't leave this guys attic without knowing that these fixtures are safe for installation covering.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thank You
Jim

I've seen them installed and then "boxed out." Which is to say the carpenter built a wood box around them (allowing for four inches of air space around the light, but completely concealing it.) I've also seen several installs where the insulation was simply pulled away from the lights. This is a legal way of insallation, but it tends to cause frost to develop on the lights in colder climates (and no doubt "hot spots" in warmer ones.) There are a few products on the market that are designed to fully enclose recessed cans, but they are designed for fire rating, and are therefore rather pricey.

 

[physis]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

I've used sheet rock, construction adhesive and aluminum tape to box them in. The sheet rock cuts fast, the glue goes between the seems fast and the tape holds them together while the glue dries (and later too cause they'd probably fall apart without it). Where the joists have a consistant 14 1/2" between them you only need three different cuts, 2 for two sides, 2 for the other two sides and a top. Assemble them first. Doing a whole building full I wasn't able to make the boxes in less than about 20 minutes each, after I got good at it.

 

[iwire]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by physis:
I've used sheet rock, construction adhesive and aluminum tape to box them in.

Glue and duct tape.

 

[physis]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

I thought it would it be easier to put IC stickers in the cans.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by iwire:
Glue and duct tape.

You know what they say,
"If you can't duck it...."

My 4 year old asked what happens when a power line breaks and falls down. I said they replace it with a new one. He said "Can't they just duct tape it?" Future genius!

[ July 30, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

You all can talk junk about ?duck tape? all you want, but I have seen it hold a fender on a car at 200 MPH.

Bet monkey grip won?t do that!

 

[peter d]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
[ He said "Can't they just duct tape it?"

Looks like you've taught the lad well!

 

[physis]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

I was gonna mention a couple other fastening methods but Charlie B.'s out there somewhere.

Edit: JW you shouldn't be driving that fast.

[ July 30, 2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[cselectric]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by physis:
I thought it would it be easier to put IC stickers in the cans.

hmmm... not sure that would improve safety, but one a new install it would get you through inspection. Personally, my plan for future wealth is to counterfeit and sell UL labels.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Progress cans come with a sticker that relates to the trim out in RE: to ic rating.i have an ahj that makes us remove every sticker from the can before he passes the rough in remove a stupid sticker and pass :roll:

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Allen, I'm guessing there is an "IC" applications sticker that covers an "Non-IC" applications sticker, right?

A non-IC area could use larger bulbs than an IC area could for the same can.

Why would he fail you for limiting what your customer believes he could put in his can? I'd probably fight that one tooth and nail. Limiting the customer would reduce your callbacks for over-sensitive thermal cutouts.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

George i am serious he would walk a home and look for the sticker or remnants of the sticker.Basically the sticker says IC rated with this la da da # trim.....On rough he says that how can he sign off the rough without knowing what trim is going to be installed on trim out :roll:

 

[petersonra]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by allenwayne:
George i am serious he would walk a home and look for the sticker or remnants of the sticker.Basically the sticker says IC rated with this la da da # trim.....On rough he says that how can he sign off the rough without knowing what trim is going to be installed on trim out :roll:

he might have a point there.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

We made cages from 1/4" wire mesh (sometimes called "metal cloth") to keep the insulation away. Took a lot less than 20 min. each.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Non IC rated downlights

Originally posted by petersonra:

Originally posted by allenwayne:
George i am serious he would walk a home and look for the sticker or remnants of the sticker.Basically the sticker says IC rated with this la da da # trim.....On rough he says that how can he sign off the rough without knowing what trim is going to be installed on trim out :roll:

he might have a point there.

I could understand,if this was just a home on a private lot.But this was one of 800+ homes same builder same subdivision they supplied the same trims for all the houses.Same manufacturer same same same same same