Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

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Will Wire

Senior Member
Location
California: NEC 2020
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
In my area we still use the 1999 NEC. Section 336-18. Supports. States that the methods of support should be installed so as not to damage the cable. If someone is pulling nonmetallic sheathed cable through the bored holes in framing members and you tear the outer jacket on a splinter or something but do not damage the inner conductors is it necessary to remove the wire or is there a safe repair (i.e. tape)? I'm not talking about long tears, I'm talking about small punctures. Thank you.
 

Will Wire

Senior Member
Location
California: NEC 2020
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

Thanks jimwalker. I have also considered it damaged and removed it. The GC's that I work for think that I'm crazy for being so picky but I tell them that damaged is damaged and it must come out. I was just checking to see if there was somthing that I have missed that allowed repairs.
 
T

taylorp

Guest
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

How about just wrapping the puncture with yellow tape, if you are pulling #12 NM. That way the AHJ would never know. . . . . :D
 

jes25

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Electrician
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

the guy that taught me how to pull romex said when that happens just put the nick on the back side where the ahj cant see it and if he does you could play ignorance. :D
 

jemsvcs

Senior Member
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

I think the real issue here is that manufactuers make the outer sheaths so cheap now that they scrape off much easier than years ago.
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

I've never tried to look this up but have been told by others you can patch sheathing with electrical tape. Is there somewhere in the NEC where it says you can or can't.

I agree with Jim, you should want a good reputation with your AHJ's. You should want a good reputation period! ;)
 
B

bthielen

Guest
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

I think the real issue here is that manufactuers make the outer sheaths so cheap now that they scrape off much easier than years ago.
This may or may not be true but then where does one draw the line and stop blaming the manufacturer for our ability to overstress the cable? Is there a defining specification for the amount of stress the cable must be able to endure and if so, is the cable manufactured today not meeting that requirement? No matter how tolerant they manufacture the cable, sooner or later someone will tear it or puncture it.

On a similar subject: I recently wired a new pole building I built on my property. Because it is used for animal housing I had to use type UF wire. I did some of the wiring during the winter months and I noticed that at temperatures below freezing, the outer sheath became quite brittle could crack rather easily. I didn't discover this phenomenon until I was nearly done. I passed inspection just fine but I am a little curious about this.

Any thoughts?

Bob
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

I`m not quite sure what this has to do with safety? The outer sheathing holds the inner conductors together in a neat package. I don`t recall ever having a problem with tears unless someone drilled into a nail. If your putting that much stress on the outer jacket to tear it, its time to stop and regroup.
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

have seen it happen from nails or truss plates.Easy cure learn how to safely pull wires so no damage is done.So if you damage like 1 wire in 10 houses just tie another to it and repull.Why would you even think about trying to hide a damaged wire ? Is 15 minutes and $10 worth of wire that big of deal? reuse the undamaged part.Just what is the real cost if the inspector finds it and you fail ? If your bidding that low your on your way out.You know it is less than right so just fix it.
Lets look at it this way,if i ran out of romex and used thhn wraped in tape for 5 feet would you exspect to pass ??????????/

[ August 20, 2004, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

Bob,
The manufacturers of most of the standard wire and cables that are used say that they should not be handled when the temperature is below 14?F.
Don
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

A statement from Dave Mercier of Southwire and CMP 7 alternate says in part:
It's not just the nylon covering on THHN/THWN, we learned, but the sheaths on cable assemblies also often are optional. A cable installer nicked the sheath of a nonmetallic cable installed in a dry indoor location, and responded in a curious way: he turned the cable so the nick faced toward the wall. Not a bad response, Dave opined (while not wholeheartedly endorsing); this way, people glancing at it in passing wouldn't be unnecessarily concerned.

You may detect from this that Dave is quite an engaging speaker; moreover he's one with 19 years' product and Code experience under his belt to give plenty of clout to the information.

Damage is not necessarily limited solely to cable sheaths, of course. If a cable appears damaged, Dave recommends cutting a window in the sheath so you can examine the conductor insulation beneath. If that's good, you can "reinstall the window."

What should you do when you do want to, or need to, repair a cable sheath? Vinyl tape does just fine, Dave said, except in a wet location, and self-sealing mastic tape does even better. Best is a layer of self-fusing tape covered by a layer of vinyl. It even can be used outdoors on UF or SE cable, so long as it is not buried. For that, you need the sealing coverings that come with a Listed underground splice kit.

Art asked whether NM or SE cable repaired in this way still meets the UL standard. Dave commented that it is tough to say. There needs to be a dialogue between the manufacturer, AHJ, and installer. A qualified installer of repair materials should be able to make a repair acceptable to the AHJ, and Southwire's warranty will remain in effect.
You have to scroll down about 1/4 of the way on the linked page to find the minutes of the Nov 18, 2003 George Washington Chapter of the IAEI meeting to read the complete statement.
Don
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

T-bird was talking about a small puncture in the outer jacket not the inner conductors. I would agree that if you damage the inner conductors replace it.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

Just use UL approved tape.

Roger

[ August 20, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

I like that idea jim.
More sensibility, less noncunstructive rule misinterpretation.

I don't rip up NM sheathing when I'm installing it. The last time I did it it was from kicking a spool across an unfinished floor and it caught a nail. I was thinking at the time how one electrical contractor I've worked for would have wanted the damaged section installed intead of working it out of the spool. He would have saved a lot of money?

As far as the durability of the sheathing, I love the cheaper soft stuff. I can work and strip it way faster than the old hard NM. If I could buy NM Hard or NM Soft I'd buy Soft.

[ August 21, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: Nonmetallic-sheathed cable

Jim
Tape definitely alters the cable. That does not mean the cable is unuseable.
If the cable sheath has been damaged, and the conductor insulation is undamaged (a common situation that I have seen many times in xx years) I would venture to say that a repair to the outer sheath with the proper method - in most cases electrical tape, would be sufficient.
The only part that would concern me is the location of the NM Cable installation, exposed, concealed, where concealed.

How about underground installations of UF? The cable is damaged during excavation, use of a listed underground splice kit has been used as long as I have been in the industry... okay almost as long ;)
 
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