Not good

[A-F-E]

I put a stupid add on crags list about a remodel and one about a service change for a trailer. So I could see what other guys were charging and just let me tell you the economy is not the only thing in the toilet.

Service change for trailer from $1800.00 to $100

Remodel $95.00 per HR to $12.00

I should have been a banker!

 

[satcom]

I put a stupid add on crags list about a remodel and one about a service change for a trailer. So I could see what other guys were charging and just let me tell you the economy is not the only thing in the toilet.

Service change for trailer from $1800.00 to $100

Remodel $95.00 per HR to $12.00

I should have been a banker!

We live in a great country, we can give work away and starve or charge to the sky and live in style, and we are all free to choose the way we want it.

 

[480sparky]

It is the inaileinable right of every American to live under a bridge and eat ramen noodles if they choose to.

 

[Dnkldorf]

I just got back from a pre-bid.

22 Gc's
@ 15 plumbers
@ 15 HVAC
@ 20 EC

I walked out after the show of hands.

Most plates were from out of state, and a good majority didn't have real profficient English skills.

I'm gonna hit the driving range. I can make more money playing skins with some buds than we would on that job.

 

[480sparky]

I just got back from a pre-bid.

22 Gc's
@ 15 plumbers
@ 15 HVAC
@ 20 EC

I walked out after the show of hands.

Most plates were from out of state, and a good majority didn't have real profficient English skills.

I'm gonna hit the driving range. I can make more money playing skins with some buds than we would on that job.

I think Kenny Rodgers hit the nail on the head with "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run....."

 

[Rewire]

We have just gotten spoiled to the good times I remember the early 80s when things flopped it was a struggle but those who used their heads and didn't give up stayed in business. I see the young ECs who bought the fancy new pickup last year struggling to make the payment,I bought used vans and paid cash.Some of the best advice I was given was live below your means. Those who cannot adapt will fail and those that refuse to adapt will be right behind them.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

The counter guy at the supply house was telling me how "Everybody is lowering their prices to get work." He was saying guys are going as low as $35 per receptacle and $75 a can (speaking resi), now that might cut it in some areas other than the mighty expensive cost of living state of NJ but I would rather sit home and post on a forum in the middle of the day on Friday than race to the finish line of bankruptcy charging those prices here..........but this is my first six months in business, what do I know? Right now I have enough work to pay the mortgage for the next couple of months....I would rather spend my time researching the business of EC'ing than performing work for pennies on the dollar. Hopefully I outlast the race to nowhere...

 

[Rewire]

Not working is not an option,If lowering your price keeps you in business then that would make sense, sitting at home because you wont lower your price does not.

 

[480sparky]

Not working is not an option,If lowering your price keeps you in business then that would make sense, sitting at home because you wont lower your price does not.

Not always. Lowering your price to the point you lose money makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

If you need to charge $75/hour to stay in business, dropping to $70/hour only puts you further in debt faster.

 

[Rewire]

Not always. Lowering your price to the point you lose money makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

If you need to charge $75/hour to stay in business, dropping to $70/hour only puts you further in debt faster.

then you have two options close or lower your cost of doing business.Sometimes you need to operate at a loss for a short time in order to trim costs.If I need $75 and only make $70 But have enough capital to make up this shortfall for a period of time then doing this would make sense in the overal viability of the business not earning anything will gaurentee failure now working at a loss can have the same result but it can also keep me going until times are better I play the odds do nothing 100% failure work at a loss 50-50

 

[480sparky]

then you have two options close or lower your cost of doing business.Sometimes you need to operate at a loss for a short time in order to trim costs.If I need $75 and only make $70 But have enough capital to make up this shortfall for a period of time then doing this would make sense in the overal viability of the business not earning anything will gaurentee failure now working at a loss can have the same result but it can also keep me going until times are better I play the odds do nothing 100% failure work at a loss 50-50

There's a wide chasm between lowering your price to stay in business (given you have the funds to do so and doing so is also a sound business decision) and lowering your price just to get the job and have something to do while fooling yourself into thinking you're making money.

If you've got the funds on hand to tide you over, however, why lose some of it just to 'buy' a job? Why not stay home and break even?

 

[satcom]

There's a wide chasm between lowering your price to stay in business (given you have the funds to do so and doing so is also a sound business decision) and lowering your price just to get the job and have something to do while fooling yourself into thinking you're making money.

If you've got the funds on hand to tide you over, however, why lose some of it just to 'buy' a job? Why not stay home and break even?

I am sorry it must be my way of thinking, but back in the 70's slow down that lasted 2 years, I put the business on hold and did not renew insurances or continue to pay operating expenses, that first year I took a job with a cleaning company, and brought home a living wage, then when business picked up, I paid up the insurances and operating expenses, while the guys that tried to hand in there, went down so low they could not re enter, most of them never did go back in business.

 

[emahler]

I'd rather work 20 hrs @ $150/ hour than 40 @ $75/hr. Better margin and more profit (all things being equal for a 1 man shop.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

There's a wide chasm between lowering your price to stay in business (given you have the funds to do so and doing so is also a sound business decision) and lowering your price just to get the job and have something to do while fooling yourself into thinking you're making money.

If you've got the funds on hand to tide you over, however, why lose some of it just to 'buy' a job? Why not stay home and break even?

That is pretty much how I feel at the moment. A large percentage if not all of my work at the moment is coming from referrals and those jobs for the most part are free and clear of competitive pricing on my part. It is jumping the fence to the "those who are price shopping" and/or bidding on projects side that I am deathly afraid of at the moment, because if it comes down to direct competition based on price for me to get work it looks like I will be in big trouble. For one, a quick look at numbers tells me I cannot compete with the resi prices I listed in my previous post (I am not the "Come in low & whack em with change orders" type of EC, at least not for the resi side....yet...), I have too much of a conscience, maybe I should get rid of that thing? And as far as getting into bidding on projects.....geez 2067675 EC's on every bid nowadays and roughly a 50% swing in the bids at the end tells me if you win you did something horribly wrong.

I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is focus on keeping my costs as low as possible while passing on working to break even if at all possible. At this moment in time it looks as though I will be busy until early summer, I renew my insurances around October, if it doesn't look good, I will make the call then. I have been looking into bidclerk to fill some of the void but fear that it will not give me a positive ROI.

 

[Rewire]

There's a wide chasm between lowering your price to stay in business (given you have the funds to do so and doing so is also a sound business decision) and lowering your price just to get the job and have something to do while fooling yourself into thinking you're making money.

If you've got the funds on hand to tide you over, however, why lose some of it just to 'buy' a job? Why not stay home and break even?

For starters you don't break even buy staying home, if I need $100.00 a day to stay afloat and I stay home I am $100.00 in the hole how do you get break even from that?

If I need $100.00 a day and land work for the day that pays $95.00 I am only down $5.00

If I have $1000.00 in hand I stay home 10 days and I am bankrupt.

If I take the same $1000.00 I can make up the difference of $5.00 on the 95.00 a day jobs for 200 days or for just over six months

Now instead of 10 days to figure out how to keep my business profitable I now have six months

In six months the odds are in my favor that I can find cost saving measures to bring my business into the black.

 

[480sparky]

For starters you don't break even buy staying home, if I need $100.00 a day to stay afloat and I stay home I am $100.00 in the hole how do you get break even from that?

If I need $100.00 a day and land work for the day that pays $95.00 I am only down $5.00

If I have $1000.00 in hand I stay home 10 days and I am bankrupt.

If I take the same $1000.00 I can make up the difference of $5.00 on the 95.00 a day jobs for 200 days or for just over six months

Now instead of 10 days to figure out how to keep my business profitable I now have six months

In six months the odds are in my favor that I can find cost saving measures to bring my business into the black.

The difference is whether or not yo have the money on hand today for that plan to work. Many wait until they are broke to start dropping their price.

 

[Rewire]

The difference is whether or not yo have the money on hand today for that plan to work. Many wait until they are broke to start dropping their price.

In business you have to think ahead and plan accordingly I know alot of ECs who spent like drunken sailors who are now faced with paying the bill.I learned early in life to always keep a prudent reserve for when times were tough. Alot of these guys are going under and nothing will change that the goal now is to be the last man standing I may get skinny but I wont starve.

 

[TOOL_5150]

I think Kenny Rodgers hit the nail on the head with "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run....."

10-4

~Matt

 

[CopperTone]

It is jumping the fence to the "those who are price shopping" and/or bidding on projects side that I am deathly afraid of at the moment, .... For one, a quick look at numbers tells me I cannot compete with the resi prices I listed in my previous post (I am not the "Come in low & whack em with change orders" type of EC, at least not for the resi side....yet...), I have too much of a conscience, maybe I should get rid of that thing? And as far as getting into bidding on projects.....geez 2067675 EC's on every bid nowadays and roughly a 50% swing in the bids at the end tells me if you win you did something horribly wrong.

I vote that you get rid of that thing. I wouldn't recommend bidding low and whacking hard to a homeowner but I certainly would in a very competitive bidding market - GC's and especially public work bidding - you won't get the work any other way. GC's that bid out jobs regularly and don't use regular subs just want the cheapest price - they take advantage of the low bidder - bid the print nothing more - keep your mouth shut at bidding until you get the job - then whack away at changes that you identified on the prints and walk through - if they are legit they will have to pay. Be prepared to make your case and be as tough as they are.
Do you think that GC's have consciences? It is business - it is not personal. They won't approve or deny the change order because they like you or feel bad for you. It is all about money - thats it. You won't get preference on the next job because they will bid out the sub work and use the lowest bidder - so being the nice guy (aka - do things for free) gets you nowhere in that environment.

I honestly feel like this business is turning me into the GC's I don't like. I work for a lot of regulars with no problems at all but the public bidding we deal with different GC's all the time who at times seem like all they want to do is get your money for themselves".

A former boss of mine once told me this and it is so true "Don't take any SH*T from any other trade including the GC - they are the low bidders too"

 

[zappy]

I agree

I agree

then you have two options close or lower your cost of doing business.Sometimes you need to operate at a loss for a short time in order to trim costs.If I need $75 and only make $70 But have enough capital to make up this shortfall for a period of time then doing this would make sense in the overal viability of the business not earning anything will gaurentee failure now working at a loss can have the same result but it can also keep me going until times are better I play the odds do nothing 100% failure work at a loss 50-50

Not working = quickly going under.

Working below your break even = slowly going under.