Not sure how or why !

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tunny

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I recently was doing a sub panel fed from another sub.Now it had ser but they cut the neutral and just ran a bare ser/seu conducter from the ground bar to the neutral bar.So I did it the way it should be neutral to neu bar and bare grn to grn bar.But they had no continuity so I went to the panel feeding my panel and the neutral from the ser was cut and not terminated.So I went back to my panel and screwed in the bonding screw so the neu and the grn bar would be bonded and the circiuts would work.Well They didn't and the bond wasn't made after screwing in the bond screw :confused: .My boss came out and made me cut the neu and take the bare grn wire and terminate it to the neu bar then everything worked.Why didn't it work after bonding the neu bar to the panel where the grn bar is bonded to the panel enclosure.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

But they had no continuity so I went to the panel feeding my panel and the neutral from the ser was cut and not terminated.
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If the neutral was cut on both ends, how did you expect it to work? :D

[ June 05, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

No I didn't expext it to ring out :roll: Just stating my actions.And I have to do it my boss's way whether it was right or wrong !.I do know it should have been done another way and it's not a matter of not slowing down!.I am an employee of well lets say I prefer to do things right !.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

So was the neutral damaged or something? It seems as though it was given up on without really checking to see if it was intact.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

This forum is about resolving Code questions. You and your boss are content to violate Code. Why not wire the panels correctly and then ask your questions?
Karl
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Sorry to bother you Mr Moderator.But it seems to me this forum is or was a good place to educate electricians on what's code and what's not isn't that what you said.Yes I am apalled to have to have done it that way but "you" don't sign my checks.That's why I presented the question so I can reinforce my argument that I will not violate the code where apilcable and do hack work in the future.Also please read more clearly ".My boss came out and MADE ME cut the neu ".I did not agree and yes I did want to run a new wire fix the problem properly but I was scoffed for that idea.You really should cut back on the attacks ;)
 
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I am not attacking you but the Boss "Made you cut the neutral". I think it is time for a new boss. Tell the boss he's a hack and turn him in.
 
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I would find someone else to sign my check if i was forced to do unsafe jobs.You knowed it was wrong,either he doesn't or doesn't care.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Tunny, from what you wrote, it was as if it was a foregone conclusion (to you and your boss) that the neutral was not going to be used.

From our chairs out here in cyberspace, without witnessing the whole thing firsthand, we have to form an opinion based on information you provide us.

Karl's statement was definutely not an attack. It was an honest statement. Would you walk into church bragging about the line you snorted last night, and how you hoped that prostitute was clean?

You walked in here (a code forum), to say "Hi, I tried to use a bonding screw as my neutral, which didn't work out, so my boss came in and used the grounding conductor as a neutral, exposing a lot of the equipment on the return path to potential danger."

What would you like us to say? :)
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Tunny, to get back to your original post and your one question as to why didn't it "work" when you screwed in the bonding screw on the neutral bus in the second subpanel.

Answer: theoretically it should have "worked". So something else was wrong in the panel. But let me ask you a question: if it had worked, would you have signed off on the job? Problem solved? If so, I can't apologize for my post.

But the other part of your thread brings up a question that we could get opinions on: what does an employee do when his boss "makes" him do something illegal and/or dangerous to the client or the general public.

First, let's forget about "made me do it". No such thing. Told you, ordered you. Even in the military the soldier has the right and duty to disobey illegal orders. So let's just say that if you didn't obey the boss you would lose your job. This occurs all over this country every day. So what do we do? Any opinions?

Karl
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Guys when I put up the post I knew I was in for it.But that should be proof enough I wasn't happy with the situation and wanted ammo to back me up.I'm in a terrible situation right now and there is nothing I can do about it "NOW" ;) .And Actually I was told by another owner to bond the screw to correct the problem.I am in such a bad spot you guys don't have any idea the torment inside of me.But I wanted to hear what more experienced electricians had to say.Thanks anyway ;)
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Tunny, FWIW and regardless of what the others have said, I understand your dilemma and respect you for your concerns.

I could answer the electrical questions, and probably give you the same advice as to what you "should do" as far as your present employer or leaving this present employer, but if you are feeding a family, these others won't be sending you money for the bills or groceries either.

Good Luck and I understand.


Roger

[ June 08, 2005, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Tunny,

It's not easy to standup for what is right,but this is what seperates the men from the boys.(no disrespect aimed at you,I don't even know you).

What do people think of the cop that has to turn his head?

It sounds to me like the torment is because you really do care how YOU perform electrical work. Do you think your boss will change his ways? I don't either.

Time to make a move,man,Get into a shop of real electricians, that aspire to do quality work and the torment is gone.

That's my feelings on the matter.

frank
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

I usually can quickly spot an a$$ boss.Solution is simple,fast as i can i replace him.You need to be checking the help wanted ads every morning.And when you do find a new boss turn this old one in.You should keep track of the violations,address,date, then hand it to the chief electrical inspector.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Originally posted by jimwalker:
You should keep track of the violations,address,date, then hand it to the chief electrical inspector.
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...things like the above DO happen.
I recall about 15 years I had some ins. guy
:confused: contact me for a disposition. Seems a contractor I had worked for 5 years earlier was in some trouble - Romex used in ceilings of a hi-rise office building. The contractor had the maint. contract for the building. I had never run one inch of RX in that building - but someone had...and miles of it - not just old abandoned temp. wiring.
Two of the guys who also worked for this contractor were " see no evil, yes-men" types - and the quality of the work they did showed 0 pride (or ability)...one of these clowns took the EC test 13 times - thinking taking a code update class would give him an "edge" - he's probably STILL taking the test; the other believed in using a 1900 box whenever, wherever possible - never even considering removing the old fixture whips on a office space rehab...imagine opening a (drop) ceiling and seeing 50 1900 boxes in a 20x20 room! LOL.
I have no idea how this "case" was resolved, but I haven't seen that contractors trucks on the building's parking lots for about 12 years now.
 
Re: Not sure how or why !

Tunny,
I hope you and your boss are good friends, because you may end up sharing a jail cell or lawsuit. If someone gets hurt in that building YOU will be liable, along with your boss, because YOU did the work. If your boss tells you to do something that you KNOW is a code violation you need to tell him that "I don't do work that knowingly violates the NEC, if you want it done like that, you will need to do it yourself." If/when something happens your "boss" is going to deny any knowledge of your actions and is going to try to shift the blame on to you. No job is worth ruining your life with a major lawsuit. Electricians need to realize that strictly following the NEC is the only thing that stands between them and financial ruin!

[ June 09, 2005, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: haskindm ]
 
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