There's no limit on the number of breakers in a panelboard except as long as a manufacturer makes a panelboard of that size right? So for instance if you can have a panelboard with up to 84 breakers in it, doesn't this make sense to use this rather than using a 2 section panel? Saves on cost and space right?
Number of breakers in a panelboard
- Thread starter cppoly
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
It might be cheaper to install one large panelboard but two smaller 42 circuit panelboards off the shelf may be cheaper than one large custom 84 circuit unit.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Depends just how they are sold. Take Square D models for example, if you order the panel, breakers, motor controllers (if your job needs any, gutters or wireways, safety switches, basically anything they make, all on one order you will often get a much better price than if you purchased each item individually off the shelf.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't believe I would ever use an 80 Circuit panel or for that matter anything more than a 42 cir. esp in a residence. It may be worth it commercially where pipe is often employed otherwise I cannot imagine getting 60-80 cables neatly into the panel -- it may not even be possible. I believe SQ.D is making a 60 cir. panel
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The Square D brand offering, through their warehouse system, includes QO loadcenters up to 60 circuit and their NQ panelboard line up to 84 circuits.
Dennis, I agree. I cannot imagine fitting 112 conductors (28 'full boats') into a panel that is only 50" high x 20"wide x 5.75"d.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I also agree on the problems of 84 circuits in a single relatively small enclosure.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
The Square D 84 circuit panels are in 20" wide commercial/industrial type enclosures, not your typical 14.5" wide loadcenter enclosure, they are also 5.5-6" deep and if it has a main breaker in it, it is likely at least 6 feet tall, how much room you guys need? If most of the circuits are 15 to 30 amp, there should be plenty of room. If you are filling this panel with 100 amp branch circuits, maybe you fill it up a little, and should consider switching to I-line or other larger switchgear.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The dimension that Jim stated are probably correct as he works or worked for SQ.D . You still have a tremendous number of conduits that have to enter the panel. If it is easy for you then go for it. IMO I would not want to work with it.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Yeah, the ones I have seen on display at Graybar were tall. I haven't seen any loadcenters that big yet, though they may make them, only panel boards. Don't see too many panel boards in residential.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Kwired is correct on the width and depth of the 84 circuit panel, which are as I listed them.
The wiring space on between the breakers and the sidewall of the panel is roughly 4-5" wide, so effectively you are working in a 5" square wireway. Plenty of room for nicely trained wires, most likely a real pain after some have been removed and reinstalled. Throw in some large breakers or lots of neutrals and it can be even worse.
Howewver if you only need 50 installed circuits and then room for future growth, it may be easy to justify a single 84 circuit panel instead of a 42 circuit space that is still empty 25 years later.
and of course there are different tradeoffs between residential and commerical installations.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
You had 50 inches tall and he had at least 6'-- not that big a deal because my concern was more with the entry conduits. The bottoms often don't get used much so they are usually all coming from the top.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The tallest box is 80" and the smallest is 50, I was showing the smallest. There are different sizes for different main configurations and ampacities.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Two solutions, use aux gutter, appropriate sized pull box, etc. or don't install single circuit in every raceway.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
All I ever see in residential is panelboards. The "loadcenter" is just a trade name for a panelboard that is typically sold pre installed in a cabinet. The larger commercial / industrial panelboards are sold in pieces and can be customized for the application more so than a "loadcenter".
Next time you are looking at the label of a "loadcenter" you will find somewhere on that label wording such as "listed panelboard".
wirebender
Senior Member
- Location
- North Central Texas
My current project specs do not allow MWBCs and no more than 3 120v circuits per conduit.
42 grounded conductors per panel was bad enough, I'd hate to land 84.
Such a waste of conduit and copper.
42 grounded conductors per panel was bad enough, I'd hate to land 84.
Such a waste of conduit and copper.
- Location
- Massachusetts
No one has said it could not be done, or that there were not obvious solutions if you had too.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
If you order a panelboard here from any of our supply houses, they will send you one for bolt in breakers, if you order a loadcenter it will always be plug in. Don't make the rules, they do!:lol:
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
How many other items do they have that if you call them by their actual name, or a trade name - they may not know what you are talking about?
If I am ordering a panelboard I generally will be giving them some more details of what I want and not just telling them "I want a panelboard" and hope I get what I want. For the common "loadcenters" I usually have most of the catalog numbers of the ones I use the most memorized and just ask for the catalog number. For the commercial series panelboards, you not only need to order the panelboard, you also need to specify the enclosure, cover, and other options.
- Status