Odor coming from new panel

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jjhoward

jjhoward

Senior Member
Location
Northern NJ
Occupation
Owner TJ Electric
New residential Sq D QO 200 amp main breaker panel, snap in breakers.
Installed 45 days ago.
When the elect hot water is running (DP30 amp circuit) there is a very noticeable order similar to melting crayons or candles.

When the electric dryer is running (DP30) same thing.

I have checked for voltage drops from the panel to loads and have measured less than 3 volts.

Checked the current with a clamp on meter, 23 amps max for the dryer. This is the rated power consumption for the dryer (5600 watts @ 240V) The dryer line is a 3 wire 10 awg MC cable about 65'.

The hot water heater is rated at 4500 watts @ 240V, I see the rated current for the hot water heater 18 amps.The water heater line is ROMEX 12 awg also about 65'.

The only problem that I see is that the line for the hot water is undersized at 12 awg. Most likely this is a line from the old water heater, the existing heater is new. The HO knows it should be changed to 10 awg.

QUESTION: What could be causing this odor? The breaker panel is in 12x10 room. Keep the door closed and the odor accumulates and is very strong. The breaker for the dryer and the water heater will get warm to the touch after 15 minutes of operation. The HO claims that there wasn?t any order until the last couple of days.
Could the breakers be bad?? Could the main be stinking??

Has anyone every experienced stinking QO breakers??:confused:

Thank you.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
jjhoward said:
New When the elect hot water is running (DP30 amp circuit) there is a very noticeable order similar to melting crayons or candles.
Click to expand...

I would be very concerned and probably would not have left without tracking it down.

I have checked for voltage drops from the panel to loads and have measured less than 3 volts.
Click to expand...

Did you check for voltage drop across the breakers?

Say from the incoming supply conductors and the load terminal of each breaker?


It should only be milivolts across that short distance and if you see more then milivolts across this short distance you have a problem.
 
N

nakulak

Senior Member
if its not melting romex/wire insulation, then seems like it could only be melting breaker. makes me wonder if its one of those bootleg chinese knock-off breakers ? (fwiw I would have replaced both breakers and rewired the HWH so as not to be responsible in case the building burns down)
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
It is also possible that there is something on the bus or maybe even one of the circuit breakers, that when the heat is elevated creates the odor. Were you working with a compound or other substance that could have been left on one of the components of the equipment in question?
 
jjhoward

jjhoward

Senior Member
Location
Northern NJ
Occupation
Owner TJ Electric
Yes I checked for any voltage drop from the mains to the breakers. Measured only a tenth of a volt or less.

I am going back with new breakers. I did not have them on the van, had 4 of them on my second van back at the shop!

If the new breakers don't make a difference, I am stumped (for now).
 
jjhoward

jjhoward

Senior Member
Location
Northern NJ
Occupation
Owner TJ Electric
Damn, I didn't consider the bootleg breakers!

The hot water heater and dryer have been used repeatedly over the last 45 days.

I will inspect those breakers.

What is the give away on the markings of the bootleg breakers? Is it something with the square D logo?
 
jjhoward

jjhoward

Senior Member
Location
Northern NJ
Occupation
Owner TJ Electric
I just checked the details of what the counterfeit breakes look like. Seems like the breakers that are in the panel are not counterfeit. I will change them anyway and let you all know.
Thanks,
 
JohnJ0906

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Were those the only two DP 30s in the panel?

It could be you got a bad batch of 30s. I remember we were getting bad QO DP 30s quite a bit around '99 or so. (They didn't stink, they just wouldn't turn on)

It could be they got contaminated somehow.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Seems like there are some interesting aspects to all this:

How much PI did you do are the panel? theres no grease on snap in breakers!

Is the smell only in this area room of the panel?

Is there a shared air trunk line?

What about around the individual devices? Smell or anything? Or nothing?

Are you going to meggar both circuits?

Are you going to replace that one circuit, to assure your work application of putting in a new breakers!

Are you going to meggar both circuits?
:)

How do you handle the billing in this case? :confused:

And what "wireguru" said... Kids are like house pets they want to go play with what's been played with...
 
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GUNNING

GUNNING

Senior Member
Location
Gainesville, Florida
SQR D keeps me in business.

SQR D keeps me in business.

I got one of those bad QO230's. I just tosted it. Thought it wasn't worth following up on. Is the water heater in the room? Could it be from that?
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Check the mains as well. IT could be burning up under such loads (I've seen similar meltdowns from brand-new panel with less Amps).

As a temporary measure, remove one leg from that water heater breaker, and attach it to the neutral making it a 120 Volt load. That will reduce the Amps to about 9 or so, well within the limits of your #12 line. (Change the breaker to a 20, too) It will take 4 times as long to heat the water, but it will be much safer that way... :D

If they don't use a lot of hot water, they will never notice the difference anyhow. :rolleyes:
 
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