Office in a MCC

[jeli04]

I am an electrician for a local government agency and we recently upgraded the MCC room. Now they are about to upgrade the rest of the building and there is an office space in the building. They were going to move the office space to a temporary trailer but instead to save money they moved them into the new MCC. Now all the MCC panels have 36" of clearance in front of them but is it legit to have multiple desks in a MCC. I am not happy with this decision and i am look for something in black and white to prove they can't be in there.

 

[jrannis]

I am an electrician for a local government agency and we recently upgraded the MCC room. Now they are about to upgrade the rest of the building and there is an office space in the building. They were going to move the office space to a temporary trailer but instead to save money they moved them into the new MCC. Now all the MCC panels have 36" of clearance in front of them but is it legit to have multiple desks in a MCC. I am not happy with this decision and i am look for something in black and white to prove they can't be in there.

That space really hasn't been designed to be comfortable for people, it was designed for equipment.
Are there any loud transformers in there?

 

[GoldDigger]

Will they be wearing the appropriate PPE in case a breaker opens while they are there?
:angel:
They may not interact with it but it sure could interact with them.


Tapatalk!

 

[mgookin]

Will they be wearing the appropriate PPE in case a breaker opens while they are there?
:angel:
They may not interact with it but it sure could interact with them.


Tapatalk!

That was my question too. You beat me to it! :lol:

OP: Call your buddy the fire marshal and chat about it over a cup of coffee.

Does the voltage, amperage or any other factor require restricted access?

They may spend more money cooling that place than they save by not having another office. And I'm sure your risk management dept would rather not have them in there.

 

[kwired]

I am an electrician for a local government agency ....

Must not be OSHA or equivalent local group

 

[jeli04]

The noise in the room has been addressed since there is two 5 ton A/C units and four 30HP VFD cabinets. They came in will a DB meter and said it was fine. The smart a** i am i did offer them my 40 cal Suit so they were safe while working at their desks. Their response was we are no working in the panels. I then bought up the fact what if i am working in the panels. They said they will leave the room. I have Searched the NEC, the NFPA 70E, and the OSHA website looking for something that says you can't make an MCC an office.

 

[kentirwin]

The noise in the room has been addressed since there is two 5 ton A/C units and four 30HP VFD cabinets. They came in will a DB meter and said it was fine. The smart a** i am i did offer them my 40 cal Suit so they were safe while working at their desks. Their response was we are no working in the panels. I then bought up the fact what if i am working in the panels. They said they will leave the room. I have Searched the NEC, the NFPA 70E, and the OSHA website looking for something that says you can't make an MCC an office.

Since it's govt. agency of some description I assume an arc flash analysis must have been done for the equipment in this room.

 

[Fulthrotl]

The noise in the room has been addressed since there is two 5 ton A/C units and four 30HP VFD cabinets. They came in will a DB meter and said it was fine. The smart a** i am i did offer them my 40 cal Suit so they were safe while working at their desks. Their response was we are no working in the panels. I then bought up the fact what if i am working in the panels. They said they will leave the room. I have Searched the NEC, the NFPA 70E, and the OSHA website looking for something that says you can't make an MCC an office.

you aren't gonna find anything to help you in this quest.
what is being done is not unsafe or prohibited. just annoying.

 

[kwired]

you aren't gonna find anything to help you in this quest.
what is being done is not unsafe or prohibited. just annoying.

Unless maybe the incident energy levels are high enough that you must wear PPE just to enter the space even if not opening anything.

Should a high enough energy interrupting event happen while they are in there I pretty much guarantee they leave immediately, and they likely need clean underpants.

 

[jim dungar]

Unless maybe the incident energy levels are high enough that you must wear PPE just to enter the space even if not opening anything.

There is no 'code' that would require this.
NFPA70E clearly says that under 'normal' operation, enclosed equipment is not likely to pose an arc flash hazard.

Any requirement for this type of PPE selection would be found in the company's Electrical Safe Work Practices Program. Any 'what if' or 'unique situations' scenarios are addressed on a company by company basis. Each company is expected to define the risks associated with their installations.

 

[kwired]

There is no 'code' that would require this.
NFPA70E clearly says that under 'normal' operation, enclosed equipment is not likely to pose an arc flash hazard.

Any requirement for this type of PPE selection would be found in the company's Electrical Safe Work Practices Program. Any 'what if' or 'unique situations' scenarios are addressed on a company by company basis. Each company is expected to define the risks associated with their installations.

Well then for a starter this company at least needs to see if they are violating their own policy with this situation, then maybe consult with their electrical department/contractor/other advisers that are more qualified to make determinations if this is a safe idea

 

[jim dungar]

...to make determinations if this is a safe idea

Motor control centers are regularly mounted on 'the factory floor' rather than in dedicated equipment rooms. Are you suggesting that this is not a safe practice? What about panelboards that are mounted in office spaces, is arc flash PPE required for cubicle workers?

 

[kwired]

Motor control centers are regularly mounted on 'the factory floor' rather than in dedicated equipment rooms. Are you suggesting that this is not a safe practice? What about panelboards that are mounted in office spaces, is arc flash PPE required for cubicle workers?

Well doesn't it all depend in any of the mentioned instances just what the risk assessment comes up with for hazard levels?

I have been corrected on here before about assuming it is safe to stand in front of closed switching equipment when it is operating, and a motor controller closing into a fault is not really any different then a disconnect closing into a fault.

 

[jim dungar]

Well doesn't it all depend in any of the mentioned instances just what the risk assessment comes up with for hazard levels?

Hazards say what the outcome of an event could be. Risk is the likely hood the event will occur.

Each company needs to perform a risk assessment, be it for arc flash, hazardous materials, or unsafe work practices. After all, what is unsafe at one company may be extremely unlikely to occur at another.

Code (e.g. NFPA70E and OSHA) says you need to identify the hazards, assess the risk, and provide appropriate PPE, however the details are left to you.

 

[north star]

+ = + = +

jeli04,

If there is a legally adopted set of codes & standards in-place at your
location, ...[ legally ] they cannot occupy that space until the Building
Official identifies it and certifies that space for habitability.........Any
Certificate of Occupancy [ C. of O ] in-place should then be altered
to include the additional areas. [ Refer to Section 111.1 in the
`12 IBC ].


FWIW, ...the Building Code has the responsibility of deciding what
a space is and is not, ...not the NEC !

+ = + = +

 

[cuba_pete]

MCC

MCC

Motor control centers are regularly mounted on 'the factory floor' rather than in dedicated equipment rooms.

Motor control centers are regularly mounted on 'the factory floor'

Using that reasoning, the OP would be able to insist that all office workers meet the minimum training requirements and qualifications which the tradesmen/laborers meet. What is common sense/knowledge by a trained professional in a work space is not necessarily so for a desk worker.

OSHA regulations:
1910.303(g)(1)(ii)
Working space required by this standard may not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be suitably guarded.

That gains you the 30" and 36" distances which nothing can be placed in. I don't know if that helps.

I could see someone hanging things up with magnets on panels, chairs and desks randomly placed within service areas, etc.

 

[jim dungar]

Using that reasoning, the OP would be able to insist that all office workers meet the minimum training requirements and qualifications which the tradesmen/laborers meet. What is common sense/knowledge by a trained professional in a work space is not necessarily so for a desk worker.

Employees are allowed to be qualified for specific tasks, therefore it is possible and appropriate for a company to 'qualify' those employees assigned to this MCC/office.
I believe the OP's situation is very common. Most pumping stations, I have seen, are not much more than a single room containing MCC's, motors, and a desk.

People have been exposed to electricity in the workplace for almost 100 years. Statistically it is clear that under normal operating conditions, electrical equipment does not regularly cause injury to those in its general vicinity (e.g. innocent bystanders).
It is the higher risk and non-normal conditions which we need to be cautious of and use appropriate PPE.