Ohms Law

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Dennis Alwon

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A 60 watt bulb at 120 Volts should measure 240 ohms according to R = V x V / P . So why do I measure 45 ohms or so. We had 4 or 5 meter all reading between 30-49 ohms for 60 watt, 100 watt and 40 watt bulbs.

100 watt= 144 ohms
60 watt = 240 ohms
40 watt = 360 ohms

We never got close and there was no multiplier. I tried it again at home with 2 meter each give different results every time I tested but again in the same general range
 

Eddy_Current

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What does that mean. The bulbs were indoors....I know the formula is not exact but that is a big difference.


a cold incandescent light bulb on a shelf will have a low resistance. Energize it and the resistance increases with heat.

It's a resister that gets so hot, white hot actually, and glows
 

Dennis Alwon

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a cold incandescent light bulb on a shelf will have a low resistance. Energize it and the resistance increases with heat.

It's a resister that gets so hot, white hot actually, and glows


I have been going nuts all day trying to figure out why the difference yet when wired in series the voltage at the bulbs calculated correctly.--bulb were hot....


Thank you both
 

mopowr steve

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Did you use a meter that induced a 60 cycle AC to see if impedance is what your after versus dc resistance?
Reason I bring it up is because the filament is spiral so impedance may be part of the equation.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Did you use a meter that induced a 60 cycle AC to see if impedance is what your after versus dc resistance?
Reason I bring it up is because the filament is spiral so impedance may be part of the equation.


I have no idea what the meter does. It is a simple Ideal multimeter-- so I doubt it does what you are saying
 

retirede

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Illinois
Did you use a meter that induced a 60 cycle AC to see if impedance is what your after versus dc resistance?
Reason I bring it up is because the filament is spiral so impedance may be part of the equation.

No - it’s all heat-related. That tiny spiral with no core would have zero effect at 60hz.
 

mbrooke

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The hotter a substance is the higher its resistance. There are few exceptions, but we can ignore those.


In other word when the filament heats up its resistance will go way up.


Thats why incandescent bulbs have inrush. For the first few cycles the current is very high due to the filament being cold, but when it heats up, the resistance goes up and the current drops. Its stabilizes around the listed wattage for the rated voltage.
 

GoldDigger

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Another consideration is that the temperature coefficient of resistance varies greatly from one substance to another. That of copper is fairly low, so we are not used to allowing for it in our work.
The wire used for resistance heaters is chosen for mechanical strength at red heat as well as low coefficient of resistance. The names of two common alloys, Invar and Constantan, reflect their near zero coefficient of resistance.
The tungsten filaments used in incandescent bulbs have to be strong at white heat and the very high temperature coefficient of tungsten comes along as an unavoidable side effect.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

gar

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190129-2407 EST

Dennis:

All of this should have been covered in high school physics class.

You need to do some Internet search on the subject, and some valid experiments.

You need a Variac, adequate meters (instruments), a tungsten filament bulb, if possible, an Edison carbon filament bulb, an Ohmite power resistor, a hot plate, and a 1500 W space heater that does not include a fan, lower power would be OK. All of these loads can be considered a good resistance once their temperature stabilizes. Then play.

Randomly selected tungsten filament bulbs of the same voltage, and wattage rating are quite close to one another in their value.

A random 120 V 100 W tungsten bulb read 9.7 ohms at room temperature, 80 F, with a Fluke 27, and its leads directly on the bulb. I was getting up 15 ohms when the bulb was in a socket with a switch.

Using a Variac and a Kill-A-Watt EZ I read ---
120.3 V, 0.82 A, 99.1 W, calculated from V and I P = 98.6 W, and R = 147 ohms.
090.2 V, 0.71 A, 64.4 W, calculated from V and I P = 64.0 W, and R = 127 ohms.
Room temperature 9.7 ohms. Normal brightness to room temperature has a resistance ratio of 147/9.7 = 15.2 to 1.

Lower voltages and Kill-A-Watt may not give good results. But you already see the change in resistance.

From the Internet see ---
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity
Go to the table of thermal coefficient for various materials.
K = 0.00404 for copper
K = 0.0045 for tungsten
K = 0.0004 for Nichrome
K = -.0005 for carbon --- Edison's lamp
K = 0.000008 for Constantan
K = 0.000002 for Manganin

You do some searching for the equation that includes K and how to use it.

In searching for the Invar coefficient and looking at Wiki at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_coefficient#Electrical_resistance
I did not find what I wanted, but it is interesting that a person about 3 block away from me popped up.
This was James Duderstadt.

.
.
 

Besoeker3

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UK
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Retired Electrical Engineer
I have been going nuts all day trying to figure out why the difference yet when wired in series the voltage at the bulbs calculated correctly.--bulb were hot....


Thank you both

Hot as in at operating temperature?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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Henrico County, VA
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There are why:

cold resistance vs hot resistance.[

]a cold incandescent light bulb on a shelf will have a low resistance. Energize it and the resistance increases with heat.
. . . In other word when the filament heats up its resistance will go way up.

Thats why incandescent bulbs have inrush. For the first few cycles the current is very high due to the filament being cold, but when it heats up, the resistance goes up and the current drops. Its stabilizes around the listed wattage for the rated voltage.
 

Frank DuVal

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Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
Have you ever measured inrush current to an incandescent light bulb? Way higher than you think, because the cold resistance of tungsten is way different than hot temperature. Operating hot temperature, not room temperature.

Way back wall switches had a "T" rating to indicate they would withstand the inrush of tungsten filaments. I guess we do not need "T" rated switches anymore.:D
 
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