Old black Romex 12/2 w/#16 G?

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CCC Electrical

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Morristown, Tn
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Journeyman Electrician
Thank y'all for allowing me to be on here. Don't really know what I'm doing.

I'm more industrial & commercial. But, I am trying things on my own now. Anyway, I've still seen my share of Romex, but black 12/2 w/#16G? I have never seen anything like that before.
The homeowner wants me to use it. But, I didn't notice it til today. I know code says 90° Celcius, but is ok to use. Which I'm not going to now either way. someone's buying some wire. Probably me.
 
That sounds like the old romex from the 60s.
68 or 71 edition NEC required full size. Not sure which right off..
 
Using international internet opinion as a guide ignores your local amendments and State licensing laws.

My State has a separate license category for just Residential, unless you meet one of several exemptions.
Our local AHJ's have amendments, including special requirments for Aluminum branch wiring.

What is common in all 50 States is Joint & Several Liability. You touch it, your responsible.

Just updated my residential general liability policy for Zero deductible, after tightening a box screw broke a bathroom mirror.
Deductible cost me $500. but took care of a good customer.
 
Generally speaking, I would never use any material the home owner hands me.
You have no idea how old it is, what shape it's in, etc. etc. Just looking it over doesn't suffice.

Buy new or take it from your own stock. You're liable. And that homeowner will flip on you in a heartbeat if something goes wrong with that cable. Him telling you to use it won't suffice in a legal battle.
 
Jerramundi said:
Generally speaking, I would never use any material the home owner hands me.
You have no idea how old it is, what shape it's in, etc. etc. Just looking it over doesn't suffice.

Buy new or take it from your own stock. You're liable. And that homeowner will flip on you in a heartbeat if something goes wrong with that cable. Him telling you to use it won't suffice in a legal battle.
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When you add an extension to an existing circuit you sort of take on risk of whatever condition the existing portion might be in. It is done a lot anyway, but like you said, if something goes wrong and they can point a finger at you they will.
 
kwired said:
When you add an extension to an existing circuit you sort of take on risk of whatever condition the existing portion might be in. It is done a lot anyway, but like you said, if something goes wrong and they can point a finger at you they will.
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Is that what this is? The extension of an existing circuit? OP sounded to me like the customer was handing him some left over materials from whatever/whenever and asking him to use them in order to save a few bucks. That's how I understood the context.

But if it is the extension of existing circuit, then yes.. same applies. I always advocate for bringing whatever system is being added onto up to code before the addition is made. Doesn't always fly as it increases costs, but I always make that stipulation.
 
CCC Electrical said:
Thank y'all for allowing me to be on here. Don't really know what I'm doing.

I'm more industrial & commercial. But, I am trying things on my own now. Anyway, I've still seen my share of Romex, but black 12/2 w/#16G? I have never seen anything like that before.
The homeowner wants me to use it. But, I didn't notice it til today. I know code says 90° Celcius, but is ok to use. Which I'm not going to now either way. someone's buying some wire. Probably me.
Click to expand...
Biggest problem (aside from letting customers supply material) is the old Romex/NM isn't rated for 90 deg. We are required to use the 90 deg now.
 
Sometimes you just have to tell a customer, "Look here. You hired a professional for a reason. Don't ask me to compromise the integrity of my craft so you can save $15.00 on a little bit of wire."
 
If the customer has an old roll of wire that they want you to use for new work, tell them no way. The old material does not meet current code in several ways.

If the customer has an old installation that they want extended, then you need to determine if the old install is currently legal, eg. 'grandfathered', and if it can be safely extended.

You also need to help your customer understand that extending an existing circuit may not be more economical than a complete new circuit, depending upon installation conditions. Eg. in my home it is easier to fish a wire from a new box to the basement and then to the panel then it would be to fish it back up to an existing receptacle.

-Jon
 
The NEC requires NM cable be rated at 90° C, if marked as "NM-B" it is, but if someone has a roll of 60° C NM it's only value is scrap metal, the reduced EGC NM cable went away with either the 1968 or 1971 NEC.
 
norcal said:
The NEC requires NM cable be rated at 90° C, if marked as "NM-B" it is, but if someone has a roll of 60° C NM it's only value is scrap metal, the reduced EGC NM cable went away with either the 1968 or 1971 NEC.
Click to expand...

1971, for the record. 250-95 to be exact.
 
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