Old Code 1971 and modern code

[brother]

Tried to edit but couldnt the title should say Old Code 1971... not 1975


Been visiting other forums, had see a post that said

the 1971 NEC. It required that all 15 and 20 ampere receptacles be grounded. Assuming that was the code in effect when that house was built, those grounds must be made to function properly. GFCIs certainly can be used, but the ground also must be in place and functioning properly.

They were corrected and was told that the Gfci does NOT need a ground to function properly. You can replace non grounding type receptacles where there is no ground with gfci, just put a sticker on it that says 'no equipment ground'.

They also said

Let me state it another way to correct some of the misinformation. If an installation was required by code at the time of installation to have equipment grounding conductors for the required grounding-type receptacles, there is no code-permissible substitute for those grounds- NONE. They must be restored/installed. GFCIs are added protection, but of a different nature from the grounded circuits

So my question is this, does anyone have a 1971 NEC ?? AND IS this what it actually said back then?? I still do not believe it would negate installing gfci s where there is no equipment ground.

 

[iwire]

Tried to edit but couldnt the title should say Old Code 1971... not 1975

All set, 1971 it is.

 

[EBFD6]

This isn't really an answer to your question, but how could someone think that if a building was wired in 1971 and the origional electrician screwed up the install (didn't wire to "current" 1971 code requirements) and I show up in 2008, I have to tell the customer that their whole building needs to be rewired because the guy didn't do it right in 1971. If the building were in the same condition but had been wire in 1950, when grounds weren't required, then I could replace the recept with a GFCI, but because it was wired in 1971I can't? Doesn't sound logical to me! JMO

 

[brother]

All set, 1971 it is.

Thanks alot

 

[480sparky]

From the 1971 NEC:

210-7. Grounding-Type Receptacles and Protection. Receptacles and cord connecors equipped with grounding contacts shall have those contacts effectivey grounded. The branch circuit or brach-circuit raceway shall include or provide a grounding conductor to which the grounding contacts of the receptacle or cord connector shall be connected. Acceptacle grounding means are outlined in Section 250-91(b)

Exception: For extension only in existing installations which do not have a grounding conductor in the branch circuit, the grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle outlet may be grounded to a grounded cold water pipe near the equipment.

Is that what you're looking for?

 

[brother]

From the 1971 NEC:

210-7. Grounding-Type Receptacles and Protection. Receptacles and cord connecors equipped with grounding contacts shall have those contacts effectivey grounded. The branch circuit or brach-circuit raceway shall include or provide a grounding conductor to which the grounding contacts of the receptacle or cord connector shall be connected. Acceptacle grounding means are outlined in Section 250-91(b)

Exception: For extension only in existing installations which do not have a grounding conductor in the branch circuit, the grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle outlet may be grounded to a grounded cold water pipe near the equipment.

Is that what you're looking for?

I believe so , thanks. I suppose there is NO specific language that says,

all 15 and 20 ampere receptacles be grounded.

It says that "Receptacles and cord connecors equipped with grounding contacts shall have those contacts effectivey grounded"

Aparently that person that posted that just misinterpet the 1971 code. I do not see a how that language would overide the gfci exception even though the gfci is 'equipped with grounding contacts' . I believe that was the reason for the 406.3(D)(3)(c) was to help 'relieve' some of the bad installs back then. Even if the original install was a VIOLATION (someone installed a receptacle with a grounding contact without having a egc installed on the branch circuit), I believe that 406.3(D)(3) would 'correct' that violation. Please correct me if im wrong. Whats your opinion?

406.3(D)(3) Non-grounding type receptacles. Where grounding does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(3)(a), (D)(3)(b), or (D)(3)(c).

 

[480sparky]

I believe so , thanks. I suppose there is NO specific language that says,

Aparrently that person that posted that just misinterpet the 1971 code. So by your language it should not be a problem with installing the gfci.

A GFI would be an acceptacle solution to having no ground wire. 406.3(D)(3)(c). From the '05, of course.:smile:

It was the change in the '75 NEC that required grounded receptacles:

210-7. Receptacles and Cord Connectors.
(a) Grounding Type. Receptacles installed on 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits shall be of the grounding type. Grounding-type receptacles shall be installed only on circuits of the voltage class and current for which they are rated, except as provided in Tables 210-12(b)(2) and (b)(3).


Does this help?

 

[brother]

A GFI would be an acceptacle solution to having no ground wire. 406.3(D)(3)(c). From the '05, of course.:smile:

It was the change in the '75 NEC that required grounded receptacles:

210-7. Receptacles and Cord Connectors.
(a) Grounding Type. Receptacles installed on 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits shall be of the grounding type. Grounding-type receptacles shall be installed only on circuits of the voltage class and current for which they are rated, except as provided in Tables 210-12(b)(2) and (b)(3).


Does this help?

yes thanks.

 

[George Stolz]

Exception: For extension only in existing installations which do not have a grounding conductor in the branch circuit...

I wonder when the "extensions to existing branch circuits" language passed out of the NEC?

 

[480sparky]

I wonder when the "extensions to existing branch circuits" language passed out of the NEC?

That exception does not appear in the '75.

 

[wbalsam1]

I wonder when the "extensions to existing branch circuits" language passed out of the NEC?

There was an early version of this in the 1956 code at 2115(b). It was still in in 1968.
That exception was 210-7 Exc in 1971 and by 1975 it had moved to 210-7(c) but the wording was kept the same. By 1981 the exception had been shortened and moved to a (d) subsection in 210-7. This exception read "Exception: Where a grounding means does not exist in the receptacle enclosure a nongrounding type of receptacle shall be used". :smile: So, I'm thinking the answer is the 1978 code.

 

[Ted Gerrard]

My rule is MAKE it SAFE and I believe 406.3(D)(3) dose this. Rule #2 what is best for the customer / user, an actual ground conductor would be best because it is less likly to fail than the GFcI device.

 

[480sparky]

There was an early version of this in the 1956 code at 2115(b). It was still in in 1968.
That exception was 210-7 Exc in 1971 and by 1975 it had moved to 210-7(c) but the wording was kept the same. By 1981 the exception had been shortened and moved to a (d) subsection in 210-7. This exception read "Exception: Where a grounding means does not exist in the receptacle enclosure a nongrounding type of receptacle shall be used". :smile: So, I'm thinking the answer is the 1978 code.

That only deals with the box you are working in, not extending that circuit.