Old home Electrical inspection (1950) era

[dmagyar]

I've gotten a request by an insurance agent acquaintance to inspect a home owned by an owner they know who's having trouble getting underwritten (because of the age of the house). I know there are lots of potential landmines in this but it could also lead into a sizable renovation job. Has anyone reading this gotten similar requests?

Second question: what is the life expectancy of the paper and tar insulated romex (silver sheathing) used around then? I know lots of homes have it, my Dad's old house which is still standing is one.

Even if I don't eventually take on this because of the risk, I thought that it was worth getting a consensus on in the forum, thanks.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Given the era of construction, I wouldn't be concerned about the old silver two conductor romex. The insulation on the hot and neutral could either be thermoset plastic or synthetic rubber. . . depending upon what was available to the materials purchaser at the time the dwelling was wired. In my opinion, the only concern is whether the branch circuits have been overheated, which will prematurely age the insulation on the conductors.

Period fish bowl ceiling hugging light fixtures, especially in the kitchen, can be a source of insulation destroying heat, as can over fusing.

I look for evidence of DIY modification of branch circuit wiring. The more I find, the more concern I feel for what is hidden.

 

[petersonra]

It's not unusual for insurance companies and lenders to try and force some kind of upgrades to homes of these eras. They both recognize there are almost certainly going to be some issues with a 50 YO house. It is not just the electrical systems they are worrried about.

The lenders are worried that the borrower might end up with a house that is hard to sell and that might lead to a default.

The insurance companies are worried about the increased casualty risks of older houses plus there is always the increased risk of the HO wanting out from under a problem that might increase the insurer's risk.

 

[Sparky555]

I get similar requests. I quote them around 4 hours including the report. If they are looking for the "free estimate" deal, the quote moves them on to the next guy. If they want repair quotes, I usually quote to bring it up to current code. Anything less is a liability gamble IMO.

 

[growler]

Given the era of construction, I wouldn't be concerned about the old silver two conductor romex.

That old Romes is alright but when they are that old I would look for the number of receptacles ( maybe 2 in a bedroom ) and the use of extension cords ( big time fire hazard ). Also the use of pull chain controlled incandesent lights for clothes closets. You know the old open 100 watt lamps ( another fire hazard ).

I would try to think of it as a fire safety inspection and not just a code inspection.

As Al mentioned those old fixtures didn't have insulation between the fixture and the juntion box and I have seen every fixture in the house with bad wiring in the junction box because of those old fixtures and 100 watt lamps.

I really don't think you take much risk as long as you state the inspection criteria and what you find during the inspection. If I remove a fixture and find the wiring in a junction box is good then I state that it's good or if I find the insulation bad and overheated then just state what's found.

 

[hurk27]

Along with the above advice, look for over fusing if it has a fuse panel, how loaded are the circuits, does the kitchen have 20 amp circuits, most homes of that era don't have grounding EGCs so look for 3 wire receptacles installed, and if they show a ground make sure its not boot legged from the neutral, look for rodent signs in attic and crawl spaces, they love to eat the insulation, proper bonding in service panel, grounding electrodes, If service was changed to breakers, make sure panel wasn't just changed but still using the old 30 or 60 amp service entrance conductors.

The wire itself is not a hazard, but DYS mods and or damage over time can be, I know of many houses around here that have this type of wiring, some with even a EGC, but most of those only have a reduced EGC, but was legal at the time, most of this type cable will have thermo plastic wire insulation, rubber was stopped during the war (WW2) for the war effort, remember we only had one basic country supplying us rubber at the time which German U boats tried like crazy to stop this supply line from South America.

Just do not put into your inspections any requirements, list only the things you find, let others make the opinions as to what should be done, or you can open yourself to some liability, I would never certify an electrical system as safe, as for one, my insurance might not cover that kind of liability, if asked for an opinion just make sure it is only an opinion, as there can always be hidden things that could cause a fire that you can not see.

Hook up with a home inspector if for nothing else, to look at the lengthy disclaimer they have to get out of the liability part, very important to use the same or similar.

 

[kwired]

Do not mention that anything is good. Only mention deficiencies in any reports.

Also mention that there is no way you can verify the condition of anything that is concealed unless it is exposed for inspection somehow.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I agree with Huck never certify the building as safe. Describe exactly what you did and what you where able to examine then describe what you found and any vilolations, conditions needing repairs or conditions that would not be currently code compliant.

 

[dmagyar]

Thanks for all the comments

Thanks for all the comments

I was called late last night, by the insurance agent whom I'm starting to group with realtors as far as being legitimate sources of work. The "mogul" who owns the place in question got someone working for him on one of his commercial properties to "inspect" the place and I'm off the hook.

It was curious and I'm sure it's no coincidence that "the electrical being safe" was mentioned as the verdict the insurance company was after in order to insure the home.

 

[SmithBuilt]

I have gotten requests for these also. But never had anyone follow through after I give them an estimate. I may be overly cautious. As stated above there is some risk. I included megging all the wiring individually along with what others have stated. Megging will not show everything but you can get an idea of the insulation integrity behind the walls.

On an 50's model house it's not to bad to check the few circuits that were used back then. Especially if there's no furniture in the way.

 

[dmagyar]

They never got my cost for the inspection either

They never got my cost for the inspection either

I think the first guy thought that I would do the inspection free, in light that this owner had so much property (that he was insurring) that I'd get lots of work after I endeared myself to the home owner by doing so. He was so wrong.

I've only been in the trade for forty years and have heard "if we do a good job (and are cheapest) we'll get the next job" many times and I think all the variations of the same bs. It does trouble me though that some think EC's as a whole are stupid enough to go for that con. :roll:

 

[growler]

I've gotten a request by an insurance agent .

I've only been in the trade for forty years and have heard "if we do a good job (and are cheapest) we'll get the next job" many times and I think all the variations of the same bs. It does trouble me though that some think EC's as a whole are stupid enough to go for that con. :roll:

I don't think of it so much as a con but more as a sales tactic. Insurance agents an other sales professionals understand that sales is a numbers game. He probably understands that if he ask 5 ECs for a free inspection that he will be turned down at least 4 times but in the end he will find the sucker he's looking for ( I have herd there is one born every minute ).

The reason most people never make it in sales is because they can't stand to have the door slammed in their face. These are pros and know it's all part of doing business.

 

[kwired]

...It was curious and I'm sure it's no coincidence that "the electrical being safe" was mentioned as the verdict the insurance company was after in order to insure the home.

I will never tell anyone that. If some catastrophe should ever happen they will remember you said that, if it is in writing that is worse. The cause could even be something that was not there when you did your inspection, but you still said it was safe. Even if you get out of being held liable you were still dragged through all the BS.