old house/ new light fixtures?

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jes25

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Electrician
How do you guys deal with the fact that new light fixtures say that are only compatible with 90 deg. supply conductors. Older homes have 60 deg wire, according to the tag on the fixtures. What about temp rating of K&T or that old cloth style romex. It seems to me 99% of people ignore this and hang the new fixture on a remodel. I have used heat shrink tubing over the old insultion before but I dont know if this is OK. So the question is what do you do, and what is the anwser? I am totaly convinced if I tell people I got put a J box in the cieling it wont go over to well. :confused:
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

Look at 410.67C and 250.118(6)(C). The 18 inches is for heat disapation.
 

jeff43222

Senior Member
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

My policy is that if I have to touch K&T, it gets replaced. The K&T I usually encounter is often buried in loose-fill insulation (code violation), it's crumbling/brittle, and of course there's no ground wire.

I just don't feel safe if I mess with K&T other than to yank it out. If people balk at my terms, I walk. It's not worth me worrying about whether disturbing the K&T is going to result in a fire or electrocution. Some people tell me to take a hike, but most of them seem to realize it's strictly a safety issue and that I'm not just trying to increase business. I think my willingness to completely walk away from a potential job and make zero also helps some of them realize safety is more important to me than making a buck.
 

rrrusty

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

About the only thing that will help will be installing Flourescent bulbs to keep the haet down
 
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

I agree with the compact flourescent lamp idea. I have run into this many times on service calls involving existing fixtures that were homeowner installed and of course overlamped. The CFLs definately reduce the heat at the fixture and even better, it keeps the HO's hands off of it for at least a couple of years if your lucky. As far as the actual manufacturer listing requirement of a minimum of 90 C supply wiring at the fixture; I've seen threads about this before. It is done every day, rather tough to get around sometimes. At the moment I think it is a nice way for the fixture manufacturer to shift liability in the event of a failure or fire. Until inspectors start enforcing/stopping this practice, or we the electrical contractors as a group agree not to perform such installations the almighty dollar wins.
 
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

Jeff,

With the exception of the blown-in insulation that I like to call "pigeon-s$%t", I prefer the K&T over the 1930's AC/BX cable with dry-rotted insulation or the 1950's mineral cloth cable in the same condition. Honestly, although the lack of EGC really bites, you can't beat that asbestos insulation on the K&T for durability. All that being said, your still right. Rip out all older cabling if given the opportunity. As far as I am concerned, peace of mind outweighs the cost of such rewiring any day of the week.
 

jes25

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Electrician
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

i thought so highly of the compact flourscent idea that I tried it today. 2 problems, First the lamps can not be used on fixtures with completly enclosed lamp design. Second they dont really fit you could cram it in but its real tight, too tight for me.

So I Still have the same problem, I sure wish I could find a way to make the new lights work with old wiring or I will lose a lot of work to the majority of people who dont give a rip.
 

electricman2

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: old house/ new light fixtures?

Where I have encountered this, I found that most homeowners will agree to the extra work (j-box or whatever else is required) if I explain to them the hazards involved. To the ones who dont I say have a good day. I will not do a job that I cant walk away from and feel good about.
 
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