Old installs - metal boxes, no ground in Romex?

[iwire]

Sure, 250.130(C).

You are gonna hate me.

If it is a new fixture location the fixture will have to be made of insulating parts.

If it is a replacement fixture than you can apply 230.130(C).

410.18 (2002)

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

George - I'm not totally clear on that. Does the wire have to be unbroken between the box "you're going to bond in" - or can it be routed from another JB..

What I mean here - is say I have an HR from panel to a JB in garage - and keep in mind it's a different circuit. Can I pull a ground out of the JB? It's bonded all the way back to the panel ( 250.130(C) )?


Boy - I just notice - at least in my internet explorer, these posts are out of sequence.

Thanks

Brett

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Iwire - is there such a thing as a surface mount 4" square? Then I'd need a round or single device plater ring. The one supply house I frequent - the guys looked at me cross-eyed when needed a plastic box and a plastic plater ring.

I went to Lowe's and they carry Carlon. Iniside the boxes I checked, they all mentioned that the boxes need to be concealed in a wall.

Thanks,

Brett

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Old installs - metal boxes, no ground in Romex?

Seem to be running in to quite a few situations where I'm finding metal boxes, but no ground in the Romex. It appears most of the homes I've been seeing like this were built in the 50's.

My question is, could an existing box - octagon in the present situation I'm looking at - have an extension added to it, and still be legal? The reason for the extension, is due to the fact the owner wants "one more light in the garage". The box is an octagon, and already has all four 1/2" KO's filled. I'm also guessing if I looked at box fill (I'm going to go look when I get in to my truck - where the NEC Code Book happens to be right now), this box my be at it's max, or possibly undersized presently.

Now, what I'm asking - so it's clear, is that the box as it sits would remain the same - all four (4) wires would remain as situated. Octagon extension would be added and new Romex would be run out to feed new light. The new light would be attached to a plastic nail-on box.

The issue, is with the addition of the metal octagon extension.

THanks,

Brett

 

[George Stolz]

Sure, 250.130(C).

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Bump

Seeing if I can get this "squirrely" acting post bumped up - to see if anyone can help me further on this. Looking for some feedback.

Please note this post is all scrambled up, as far as order. The original post is in Panel #4. Then it goes #1, #3, #5, #2 - strange - HUH

Thanks,

Brett

 

[George Stolz]

You are gonna hate me.

Hardly.

If it is a new fixture location the fixture will have to be made of insulating parts.

410.18 (2002)

410.18(B) - good reference! That pretty much explicitly states an option without an EGC for the case Brett put forward.

 

[George Stolz]

George - I'm not totally clear on that. Does the wire have to be unbroken between the box "you're going to bond in" - or can it be routed from another JB..

What I mean here - is say I have an HR from panel to a JB in garage - and keep in mind it's a different circuit. Can I pull a ground out of the JB? It's bonded all the way back to the panel ( 250.130(C) )?

Brett, I don't see that as a viable option. They offer 5 ways, and none of them is "the EGC of a nearby outlet."

I think the reason for this is some insurance against that "borrowed" circuit EGC being removed, if that EGC-bearing circuit is removed. The grounding electrode system doesn't change much; a branch circuit is more prone to replacement or what have you. (Just a guess on my part.)