old SE cable and the bare conductor

[Ponchik]

(existing installation) on a subpanel upgrade, if the existing (2 wire) SE cable is being used a branch circuit for an oven, dryer or cooktop, do you guys install the bare of SE cable on the grounding or grounded bus of the subpanel? Also if you do install it under the grounded bus do you wrap tape around it so it doesn't make contact with the box or another grounding wire?

Thanks

 

[hurk27]

(existing installation) on a subpanel upgrade, if the existing (2 wire) SE cable is being used a branch circuit for an oven, dryer or cooktop, do you guys install the bare of SE cable on the grounding or grounded bus of the subpanel? Also if you do install it under the grounded bus do you wrap tape around it so it doesn't make contact with the box or another grounding wire?

Thanks

As far as I know the NEC has never allowed SE cable from a sub panel, it has always been required to originate from the main service panel.

Below in red is from the 1999 NEC, which was also the wording of the 1993.
and is still the same wording in the 2008

250-140. Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers
This section shall apply to existing branch-circuit installations only. New branch-circuit installations shall comply with Sections 250-134 and 250-138. Frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be grounded in the manner specified by Section 250-134 or 250-138; or, except for mobile homes and recreational vehicles, shall be permitted to be grounded to the grounded circuit conductor if all of the following conditions are met.
1. The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire; or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire wye-connected system.
2. The grounded conductor is not smaller than No. 10 copper or No. 8 aluminum.
3. The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service equipment.
4. Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of the equipment are bonded to the equipment.

 

[LEO2854]

(existing installation) on a subpanel upgrade, if the existing (2 wire) SE cable is being used a branch circuit for an oven, dryer or cooktop, do you guys install the bare of SE cable on the grounding or grounded bus of the subpanel? Also if you do install it under the grounded bus do you wrap tape around it so it doesn't make contact with the box or another grounding wire?

Thanks

Well that bare conductor should be used only as an equipment ground Unless it is your over head service cable going into your service disconnect.


If you are just changing the sub panel then just put it back the way it was.

 

[Ponchik]

If you are just changing the sub panel then just put it back the way it was.

I can't duplicate what the original installed had installed incorrectly.

I installed it on the grounded bus and have wrapped it with white tape.

I just wanted to see what you guys do. Do you wrap it with tape and treat it as neutral or leave it alone and treat it as grounding conductor.

 

[augie47]

I can't duplicate what the original installed had installed incorrectly.

I installed it on the grounded bus and have wrapped it with white tape.

I just wanted to see what you guys do. Do you wrap it with tape and treat it as neutral or leave it alone and treat it as grounding conductor.

That's the most common method here.

 

[Little Bill]

I can't duplicate what the original installed had installed incorrectly.

I installed it on the grounded bus and have wrapped it with white tape.

I just wanted to see what you guys do. Do you wrap it with tape and treat it as neutral or leave it alone and treat it as grounding conductor.

Just did one a few weeks ago. I twisted/re-twisted the bare conductor and also wrapped it in white tape and landed on the neutral bar.
Inspector didn't have a problem with it!

 

[jumper]

Just did one a few weeks ago. I twisted/re-twisted the bare conductor and also wrapped it in white tape and landed on the neutral bar.
Inspector didn't have a problem with it!

I never taped it, do not see a reason to.

 

[Little Bill]

I never taped it, do not see a reason to.

Can you say pretty? I thought that you could!


Edit: Also, since it was a subpanel, didn't want one of the bare EGCs touching it or it touching the can since the neutral is not bonded in the sub panel.

 

[jumper]

Can you say pretty? I thought that you could!


Edit: Also, since it was a subpanel, didn't want one of the bare EGCs touching it or it touching the can since the neutral is not bonded in the sub panel.

Hold on a minute, a 3 wire SE cable to a range/ dryer in a sub-panel ain't legal, never was-noted above- I do not tape a bare noodle going in a main cause it is not necessary- the noodles and grounds are tied together in the busses.

 

[hurk27]

Hold on a minute, a 3 wire SE cable to a range/ dryer in a sub-panel ain't legal, never was-noted above- I do not tape a bare noodle going in a main cause it is not necessary- the noodles and grounds are tied together in the busses.

one of the reasons we find old SE cable to a sub panel is because the subpanel was the service panel until someone did an upgrade, then the next person comes along and sees this and thinks it must have been legal, this is how myths are born.

this is why it was stated that up grades can not make what was legal now not legal, the person who done the up grade should have moved this to the main service or ran a new 4-wire feed.

it has also never been allowed in a trailer because a panel in a trailer is in fact a subpanel.

The reason that they are tapeing the bare conductor is one of the reasons it wasn't allowed because if it made contact to the grounding you would no longer have separation of neutral and grounds for the whole panel and the circuits connected to it.

 

[Little Bill]

Hold on a minute, a 3 wire SE cable to a range/ dryer in a sub-panel ain't legal, never was-noted above- I do not tape a bare noodle going in a main cause it is not necessary- the noodles and grounds are tied together in the busses.

one of the reasons we find old SE cable to a sub panel is because the subpanel was the service panel until someone did an upgrade, then the next person comes along and sees this and thinks it must have been legal, this is how myths are born.

this is why it was stated that up grades can not make what was legal now not legal, the person who done the up grade should have moved this to the main service or ran a new 4-wire feed.

it has also never been allowed in a trailer because a panel in a trailer is in fact a subpanel.

The reason that they are tapeing the bare conductor is one of the reasons it wasn't allowed because if it made contact to the grounding you would no longer have separation of neutral and grounds for the whole panel and the circuits connected to it.

I suppose the reason the one I did was acceptable was because the main was actually a fused disconnect, no place to run branch circuits from. The disconnect sat right next to the panel, about 8" away, connected by conduit. As I said, the inspector didn't have a problem with it. It would have been a major undertaking to run a new 4 wire.