Old subject/New twist

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mshields

mshields

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Boston, MA
I know from reading all the threads on the subject that you can put a receptacle above a suspended ceiling but you can't have anything permanently plugged into it. fine.

A colleague just suggested an alternative to me that sounds reasonable and with code;

He suggests putting a Nema 1 Box above the suspended ceiling and installing the receptacle in it. Then run a 1 1/2 nipple to the suspended ceiling. Put a protective bushing on conduit where it exits the ceiling and plug in at will.

My comment to him was why not just put the receptacle on the ceiling. His comment back was he had worked with architects that prefered seeing the hole of the conduit.

What say you?
 
Mike, I don't think that will work either.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
Click to expand...

Roger
 
Just to make sure we're singing out of the same hymm book!

Just to make sure we're singing out of the same hymm book!

Their would be a conduit from the ceiling up to the NEMA 1 box. The cord is therefore inside a raceway that is inside the suspended ceiling.

Still no go?
 
Mike, this nipple would not meet the definition of a raceway.

Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways, and busways.
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Since the conduit or tubing is not enclosed, it would just be a hole with a pipe in it.

Roger
 
mshields said:
The cord is therefore inside a raceway that is inside the suspended ceiling.

Still no go?
Click to expand...
Still no go. You can't run cords in raceways.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code
 
Great point

Great point

So in other words, it's not a raceway but a hole and a pipe. And if you insist on calling that a raceway, you still have a 400.8 problem.

Sold - It's a bad idea.

Thanks again!

Mike
 
roger said:
Mike, this nipple would not meet the definition of a raceway.

Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways, and busways.
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Since the conduit or tubing is not enclosed, it would just be a hole with a pipe in it.

Roger
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Umm... I object. You need to bold one additional word... "channel". "An enclosed channel" is referring to the cross section, not the ends being capped in some fashion. For example, take a 2"x4"x2" steel "C" channel, secure a piece of 4" flat stock across the open side of the C channel. The flat stock creates an enclosed channel.

View attachment 82
 
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smart, that has no bearing on the enclosed part. All conduit or tubing meets the criteria of your attachment, no raceway is "enclosed" simply because it is a tube or tubular. It must end in a closed box or fitting to be enclosed.

en?close ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (
ebreve.gif
n-kl
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z
prime.gif
)

(1) To surround on all sides; close in.
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Notice the "all sides" and "close in" in the definition.

If the ends are open "all sides" are not surrounded or closed are they?

Roger
 
roger said:
smart, that has no bearing on the enclosed part. All conduit or tubing meets the criteria of your attachment, no raceway is "enclosed" simply because it is a tube or tubular. It must end in a closed box or fitting to be enclosed.

Notice the "all sides" and "close in" in the definition.

If the ends are open "all sides" are not surrounded or closed are they?

Roger
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An item can be enclosed, yet not totally enclosed. It depends on whether the term "enclosed" is referring to two dimensions or three. I say in this case it is referring to 2, that of the cross section. If you and others wish you interpret the definition of raceway differently, it is not my problem. Information provided FWIW.
 
Smart $ said:
An item can be enclosed, yet not totally enclosed. It depends on whether the term "enclosed" is referring to two dimensions or three.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. An open box could enclose a Guinea pig, but not a snake.
 
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