Old Work Boxes

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Glennw3

Member
Location
Augusta,GA
Can someone tell me what the rule is for using an old work boxes to install a sconce or light weight vanity fixture? I could not find anything on the packaging for or against this.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
code 110.3

As long as your existing screw holes are tight, non wably, I would not be concerned. If not - tap the hole to the next size, 8/32 up to 10/32 for example but usually this is not required, bubble it up and make it shine...:rolleyes:
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Michael15956 said:
Glenn,

314.27(B) allows outlet boxes to support luminaires up to 50 pounds.

Michael
Click to expand...
I don't think so....
314.27(A)Boxes at Luminaire (Lighting Fixture)
Outlets. Boxes used at luminaire (lighting fixture) or lampholder outlets shall be designed for the purpose. At every outlet used exclusively for lighting, the box shall be designed or installed so that a luminaire (lighting fixture) may be attached.
Exception: A wall-mounted luminaire (fixture) weighing not more than 3 kg (6 lb) shall be permitted to be supported on other boxes or plaster rings that are secured to other boxes, provided the luminaire (fixture) or its supporting yoke is secured to the box with no fewer than two No. 6 or larger screws.
Click to expand...

The commentary following 314.27(A) states:
Device boxes are designed for the mounting of snap switches, receptacles, and other devices, usually with 6-32 screws (No. 6 screws with 32 threads per inch). Generally, device boxes are not suitable for supporting other than lightweight wall-mounted luminaires. The exception to 314.27(A) permits luminaires such as wall-bracket types or sconces weighing less than 6 lb to be supported by a device box using No. 6 or larger screws. For heavier or ceiling-mounted lighting luminaires, see 410.16, Means of Support. The outlet box is required to provide ?adequate? support
Click to expand...
IMHO, an "old work" box was NEVER designed to support a fixture....let alone a 50# monstrosity with madison bars or OWCs ....314.27(A) will allow a fixture up to 6#'s, however ....that doesn't mean I like it, but it's "code".


314.27(B) allows fixtures up to 50#s...with some restrictions/provisions:
(B) Maximum Luminaire (Fixture) Weight.
Outlet boxes or fittings installed as required by 314.23 shall be permitted to support luminaires (lighting fixtures) weighing 23 kg (50 lb) or less. A luminaire (lighting fixture) that weighs more than 23 kg (50 lb) shall be supported independently of the outlet box unless the outlet box is listed for the weight to be supported.
Click to expand...
*********

Glenn...how "light" are these fixtures?
Here's a product that is easy to install, but allows ONLY a 3# max:
FSC3227R-HAND.jpg

(Fits an outlet* too....keep that in mind for future reference)

FSC3227R-product.jpg

Installing an ?old work? box? Our new device box SAVES TIME because it installs with a 3.25" hole saw! ​
Plus, its saw teeth cut a path for the device screws and hold the device firmly in place.​

  • [*]
    For devices and sconce fixtures up to 3 lbs​
    [*]
    Large volume; 17 cubic inches​
*Requires standard maxi plate for receptacles​
Click to expand...
http://aifittings.com/whnew95.htm
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
The season for the IAEI Section meetings is just about upon us. During a portion of the 5 day meetings, UL has a time slot where we meet in a room and we are permitted to ask them all kinds of questions about the electrical industry. They generally have 4 or 5 of the leading experts their to help answer the questions. It is my favorite part of the IAEI meetings.

The topic of "Device" boxes (some people call them "Jem" boxes) came up. One person asked about drilling and tapping out the 6/32 hole to a 8/32 hole to accommodate a larger screw or to fix the threaded hole if it was stripped. The answer was that drilling and tapping a larger hole will affect the integrity of the small ears, and is not permitted by the UL Standard for those types of boxes.
 
G

Glennw3

Member
Location
Augusta,GA
old work boxes

old work boxes

The type of box in question is the rectangular type sometimes the base of these
fixtures is so narrow this is the only box it will cover.
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Glennw3 said:
The type of box in question is the rectangular type sometimes the base of these
fixtures is so narrow this is the only box it will cover.
Click to expand...

The next question is:
How much does this fixture weigh(including all lamps and/or accessories)?
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Interesting, maybe I shouldn't buy a tap tool screw-driver ever again, cause I sure can't keep that or my #3 screw driver in my tool bag. :rolleyes:
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Pierre C Belarge said:
Have you not drilled and tapped any other holes other than in device boxes? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes I've have re-Tapped or Tapped up in size on just about any and everything at one time or another...

& I'm sure that many others have and like me didn't know that it was a UL Violation.
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
cadpoint said:
I'm sure that many others have and like me didn't know that it was a UL Violation.
Click to expand...

Ignornace is bliss...it's one of my favorite destinations :D

Guilty as charged, I am.
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Glennw3 said:
what would be the max the box would stand?
Click to expand...

Does not compute - please rephrase your inquiry.








(I don't understand what you mean, use some other words to describe it :confused: )
 
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