Old Work Recessed Light

[Jimmy7]

I have a customer who wants me to replace some old work recessed lights with new old work wafer recessed lights. I pulled one down to take a look and noticed that there is a junction box mounted up inside the ceiling. Is it code compliant to have access to a junction box through an old work recessed hole?

 

[LarryFine]

Absolutely. That's why the can is removable from in the room.

 

[Jimmy7]

Just to be clear, this is not a junction box associated with the light. Still good?

 

[infinity]

There would need to be access to the box from above. If the only access is through the fixture hole the box cannot be there.

 

[Jaybone812]

Just to be clear, this is not a junction box associated with the light. Still good?

Nope 410.118 violation

 

[infinity]

Another stupid code change that serves no purpose.

 

[Jaybone812]

Another stupid code change that serves no purpose.

Agreed !

 

[Jimmy7]

Nope 410.118 violation

I get it, but in some old houses there are times where a junction box would be useful. I understand that no one would know it’s there, but what if there was code that would make you provide information at the panel that would notify the next guy exactly where the junction box was installed. Example - Junction box for living room lights installed at first recessed light .. Anyway food for thought

 

[Jaybone812]

Unfortunately “what if “does not apply to what can and cannot be enforced 410.118 says what it says and is very clear

 

[Jimmy7]

Unfortunately “what if “does not apply to what can and cannot be enforced 410.118 says what it says and is very clear

I understand, but what I meant would it be a good code proposal?

 

[infinity]

I understand, but what I meant would it be a good code proposal?

To completely remove 450.118 from the code.

 

[Jimmy7]

To completely remove 450.118 from the code.

I meant notifications at the panel, but that works too.

 

[LarryFine]

To completely remove 450.118 from the code.

Until then, we'll just have to cram carefully fit our new junctions in the existing light's J-box.

 

[Jaybone812]

Until then, we'll just have to cram carefully fit our new junctions in the existing light's J-box.

Only way to do it currently comply with the code , but that just leads to exceeeding the number of allowed conductors which leads to conductor fill violations , it’s a double edge sword

 

[James L]

Is it code compliant to have access to a junction box through an old work recessed hole?

The better question....
WAS it code compliant?
Yes

It was a recent change which makes it a violation. But those j-boxes would have been installed during a time when it was compliant.

I've done it hundreds of times in kitchen remodels. We're still subject to older code cycles here

 

[infinity]

I've done it hundreds of times in kitchen remodels. We're still subject to older code cycles here

I agree, for remodel work this has always been a useful tool. Dumb to prohibit this common installation practice. The box hidden above the light is really no different than a box above a hung ceiling.

 

[Jaybone812]

The better question....
WAS it code compliant?
Yes

It was a recent change which makes it a violation. But those j-boxes would have been installed during a time when it was compliant.

I've done it hundreds of times in kitchen remodels. We're still subject to older code cycles here

Currenct on all accounts! The time frame of original installation was never addressed so my comments were made in response to the current code. But you’re right if compliant at the time of the install and it stays as is it doesn’t have to be addressed because its it's existing and was in compliance at the time the work was done

 

[James L]

I agree, for remodel work this has always been a useful tool. Dumb to prohibit this common installation practice.

Oh my goodness, yes. Where the alternatives are either having blank plates sprinkled throughout the ceiling or tearing up a hole much larger area of the house to replace wires all the way back to where they came from. I don't think they thought through the unintended consequences of that

 

[Jaybone812]

Oh my goodness, yes. Where the alternatives are either having blank plates sprinkled throughout the ceiling or tearing up a hole much larger area of the house to replace wires all the way back to where they came from. I don't think they thought through the unintended consequences of that

I couldn’t even begin to tell you how many times I’ve used the cut out for a recessed luminaire to give future access to j boxes of existing or damaged circuits . If some was capable of tracing and toning circuits theyd have no issue finding it and have accesss without damaging finished materials !