On the job cords
- Thread starter D.Rater
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: On the job cords
Yes, both the NEC article 590 and OSHA mandate gfci protection when workers use cords for temporary power needs.
Yes, both the NEC article 590 and OSHA mandate gfci protection when workers use cords for temporary power needs.
bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
Re: On the job cords
This probably belongs in the Safety forum, but since the NEC also addresses it, I'll take it one step further.
What a lot of construction workers and service people don't realize is that even when they are plugged into the permanent wiring of a finished building, they still need GFCI. Just because the job is done and you are working on the punch list, the requirement is still there.
This probably belongs in the Safety forum, but since the NEC also addresses it, I'll take it one step further.
What a lot of construction workers and service people don't realize is that even when they are plugged into the permanent wiring of a finished building, they still need GFCI. Just because the job is done and you are working on the punch list, the requirement is still there.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: On the job cords
(Non-temporary wiring does not fall under Article 590, so it falls back on the requirements of 210.8. The NEC doesn't require the GFCI protection for maintenance tasks.)
Here's a question from me:
A while back, we were required by a (presumably quasi-) OSHA inspector to replace all the receptacles at a lumber company's main floor for GFCI. These receptacles were used for table saws, other saws, more saws, boomboxes, all kinds of stuff.
They are used by the regular employees performing their regular tasks, indoors.
Does this sound correct?
Per OSHA, true.
(Non-temporary wiring does not fall under Article 590, so it falls back on the requirements of 210.8. The NEC doesn't require the GFCI protection for maintenance tasks.)
Here's a question from me:
A while back, we were required by a (presumably quasi-) OSHA inspector to replace all the receptacles at a lumber company's main floor for GFCI. These receptacles were used for table saws, other saws, more saws, boomboxes, all kinds of stuff.
They are used by the regular employees performing their regular tasks, indoors.
Does this sound correct?
shocker3218
Senior Member
Re: On the job cords
An OSHA rep told me that once you are on permanant building power, the GFI protection is built in to the electrical system and GFI receptacles and/or cordsets are mot required.
An OSHA rep told me that once you are on permanant building power, the GFI protection is built in to the electrical system and GFI receptacles and/or cordsets are mot required.
throttlebody
Senior Member
- Location
- Martinsburg, WV
Re: On the job cords
George, while I can't answer your specific question, but in relation to the OSHA inspector though, it would seem that since they are milling, this person would be more concerned about the construction of the outlet boxes.
George, while I can't answer your specific question, but in relation to the OSHA inspector though, it would seem that since they are milling, this person would be more concerned about the construction of the outlet boxes.
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
Re: On the job cords
Why bother with article 527 just make sure that they use the extension cords that they bought at the grocery store and they get plugged into those multi outlet strips that have about 6 to ten receptacles on them also make sure that any nicks and cuts on the cords are taped up with painters tape and laying in water Oh yea make sure you remove that pesky ground prong from the cords
if you cannot do that then run a 100' cord out plug 3 100' cords into that and 3 100' cords into each one of those then plug in your table saws compressors, drills and screw guns and do not forget the battery chargers then complain because your tools are not working and the breaker keeps tripping
once had a drywall crew that had 25 100 foot cords plugged into one 20 amp GFCI outlet not one of the cords had a ground and some of them were so chewed up that copper was showing some of the cords were spliced together and taped with drywall tape when the foreman came to me and complained he had no power I told him to go out and buy some new cords and that he had 10 minutes to get all those cords off the job site and that I would not give him any power till he did lock out tag out works wonders disconnecting the temporary also works
Why bother with article 527 just make sure that they use the extension cords that they bought at the grocery store and they get plugged into those multi outlet strips that have about 6 to ten receptacles on them also make sure that any nicks and cuts on the cords are taped up with painters tape and laying in water Oh yea make sure you remove that pesky ground prong from the cords
if you cannot do that then run a 100' cord out plug 3 100' cords into that and 3 100' cords into each one of those then plug in your table saws compressors, drills and screw guns and do not forget the battery chargers then complain because your tools are not working and the breaker keeps tripping
once had a drywall crew that had 25 100 foot cords plugged into one 20 amp GFCI outlet not one of the cords had a ground and some of them were so chewed up that copper was showing some of the cords were spliced together and taped with drywall tape when the foreman came to me and complained he had no power I told him to go out and buy some new cords and that he had 10 minutes to get all those cords off the job site and that I would not give him any power till he did lock out tag out works wonders disconnecting the temporary also works
sheldon_ace
Member
- Location
- Owego, NY
Re: On the job cords
My company has an internal safety director who visits the jobs at least twice a month. He can fine us for allowing other trades to use dangerous chords. He gives us a written document to hand out to the other trades (both in English and Spanish) warning about dangerous chords. I retain the right to confiscate and destroy dangerous chords.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: On the job cords
Have your safety director read the response to question 2 of this OSHA interpretation.
requirement for electrical subcontractor under 1926.404(b)(1) to provide ground-fault circuit interrupters on circuits used by other subcontractors.
There are quite few OSHA interpretations that say basically the same thing.
We also put up notices to bring this to the other trades attention but we are not responsible for their actions.
It is not your right to do anything to other peoples property.
Thats BS, your company is not responsible for other trades actions.
Have your safety director read the response to question 2 of this OSHA interpretation.
requirement for electrical subcontractor under 1926.404(b)(1) to provide ground-fault circuit interrupters on circuits used by other subcontractors.
There are quite few OSHA interpretations that say basically the same thing.
We also put up notices to bring this to the other trades attention but we are not responsible for their actions.
You can not 'retain' what you never had.
It is not your right to do anything to other peoples property.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: On the job cords
I agree with Bob (iwire). You don't have the right to destroy property that is not yours. However, depending on your role on the project, you may have the right, and perhaps even the duty, to command all work to stop, if you see a dangerous situation. If you chose to exercise this right (or duty), you will have to face the consequences of that choice. The question is, will your employer back you up, and defend that choice?
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
Re: On the job cords
That is why I say lock out the temporary I just happen to have to change this receptacle at this very time or disconnect the temporary I just happen to have to change this breaker at this time
I can come up with many excuses to turn off power
That is why I say lock out the temporary I just happen to have to change this receptacle at this very time or disconnect the temporary I just happen to have to change this breaker at this time
I can come up with many excuses to turn off power
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
Re: On the job cords
"I retain the right to confiscate and destroy dangerous chords"
I little better might be 'I retain the right to not allow dangerous cords to be attached to the temporary power I am required to maintain'
Get with the GC the subs are basically his employees
"I retain the right to confiscate and destroy dangerous chords"
I little better might be 'I retain the right to not allow dangerous cords to be attached to the temporary power I am required to maintain'
Get with the GC the subs are basically his employees
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: On the job cords
If I locked out a temporary service, that would last for as long as it would take the first guy to get to his truck or gang box and return with bolt cutters.
I fully support an individual tradesman's right to continue using an unsafe cord after he is made aware of the hazard. I'm neither the babysitter or the safety consultant. They hired me to be the electrician.
If I locked out a temporary service, that would last for as long as it would take the first guy to get to his truck or gang box and return with bolt cutters.
I fully support an individual tradesman's right to continue using an unsafe cord after he is made aware of the hazard. I'm neither the babysitter or the safety consultant. They hired me to be the electrician.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: On the job cords
I would not be surprised if there were a legal precedent for formally assigning blame to an electrician who was aware of a hazard and did not act. It would be a "you should have known better than the carpenter, since electricity is your trade" sort of thing. I would also not be surprised if the "I told him, but he didn't listen" defense has been tried, without success.
I would not be surprised if there were a legal precedent for formally assigning blame to an electrician who was aware of a hazard and did not act. It would be a "you should have known better than the carpenter, since electricity is your trade" sort of thing. I would also not be surprised if the "I told him, but he didn't listen" defense has been tried, without success.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: On the job cords
[ February 02, 2006, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
Yes, and some people do see the boogie man around every corner. I see hazards every day, and don't feel it's ever my place to correct them or warn people about them if I didn't create the hazard. Who's gonna pay me to remediate, mitigate, or correct a hazard that I happen to know about? Maybe I should send the bill to Charlie.
[ February 02, 2006, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
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