One dimensional electricians

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j-box

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Talking to a friend who owns a small electrical contracting outfit, he hired a guy who said he was a commercial journeyman electrician, my friend put this guy and a 1 year helper to wire 2 1700sft tract homes basic install, the JM did not know the basic installation of a residential project, ie. 2 small appliance crkts. bath gfcis. did not know about arc fault brkers. he ran seperate crkts for lights and recpts, used all #12 Romex (not required by city for all crkts) instead of #14 and #12 romex, meter base @ center @ 6' 10", the POCO requires the MB between 6' and 4' to center, he srewed up the job. My friend had to spend time and correct all this, he found out on a walk thru with JM. Now the JM did know commercial and is fast and knowlegable in commercial, zipped thru a small lease space, all green tags. did some troubleshooting on some pole lts found problem in no time. When my friend mentioned the houses to him, he said "Ah man residential, man piece of cake". Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?
 
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j-box said:
Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?

That is basically true. If you do your whole apprencticeship doing only residential or commercial work, that is all you will know how to do.

Some apprenticeship rules require a specific amount of time for each aspect of the trade (resi, comm, troubleshooting, etc). However, I've rarely seen this practiced or enforced.
 
I like to think of us as doctors. We all have our specialty. The more you do of one thing the better you get. I started doing commercial and I hated it. I will make less money on residential but I am happy and that's all that matters. IMO
 
This is very common and should not be a surprise. I have known electricans who bent pipe for 20 years and never saw a piece of romex. I myself was in business 10 years and did only residential work with the occasional small strip store build out. I did commercial before going into business. After selling business I did electric work for an A/C company. There are lots of niches and everybody seems to find one to be comfortable in.
 
j-box said:
Talking to a friend who owns a small electrical contracting outfit, he hired a guy who said he was a commercial journeyman electrician, my friend put this guy and a 1 year helper to wire 2 1700sft tract homes basic install, the JM did not know the basic installation of a residential project, ie. 2 small appliance crkts. bath gfcis. did not know about arc fault brkers. he ran seperate crkts for lights and recpts, used all #12 Romex (not required by city for all crkts) instead of #14 and #12 romex, meter base @ center @ 6' 10", the POCO requires the MB between 6' and 4' to center, he srewed up the job. My friend had to spend time and correct all this, he found out on a walk thru with JM. Now the JM did know commercial and is fast and knowlegable in commercial, zipped thru a small lease space, all green tags. did some troubleshooting on some pole lts found problem in no time. When my friend mentioned the houses to him, he said "Ah man residential, man piece of cake". Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?


Sounds like your friend make a big mistake by not having someone qualified work with this j-man first, to see if he had the experience he claimed.

There are more residential wiring guys, out there that think they are electricians, and try to do J-man level work.

Don;t some guys claim J-man, and just don;t have the schooling ot hours to back it up, in states that have licenses, it is easy to check.
 
I don't think you have to worry about it for a few more years because I don't think anyone is going to be building very many houses. :grin: :grin:

Of course there is a down side to all this. :rolleyes:
 
I have always been told to get good at one thing excel at it. Don't sound like the guy was an incompetent electrician, he was just out of his element. Sounds like he could learn it if he wanted to. But then why would he want to learn houses when he can do commercial work?
I think it was Dirk Diggler that once said " everyone's blessed with one special thing".
On a side note I noticed your in Texas, used to you had to earn that license, since it went state wide you don't really know how much of a journeyman the person is until they perform.
 
we get alot of guys wanting jobs claiming 3-4 years of expierience usually these guys worked for the condo electrical contractor and all they know how to do is nail a box ,drill a hole ,pull a yellow wire.
 
satcom said:
Don;t some guys claim J-man, and just don;t have the schooling ot hours to back it up, in states that have licenses, it is easy to check.
NJ has a "Qualified Journeyman Electrician" card....good luck on finding much about obtaining/maintaining it....let alone trying to find a searchable database.
 
People Know what is important to them

People Know what is important to them

I started residential in the early 70s working for my dad until I quit. I found a bill for 7 bucks an hour and he was only paying me 2. Lots of digging ,drilling, Pulling RX, lots and lots of grunt work and I allways fought with my uncle. Started commercial in the early 80s and only did residential on weekends. I am amazed how many Excelent commercial electricians would struggle painfully to wire a house to all code . They dont do residential so they just dont care about the codes they need to know and to tell you the truth a lot of them think that it is beneath them untill they really screw up a resi job for a family member or relative. They think they know it but they dont it happens a lot. I learned it for myself because it meant money for me on the side and have to endure every boss accuse you of stealing his material which I dont. Until I learned where to find my own information I had to rely upon word of mouth and about 10 yrs ago I learned residential framing which helped me get around a house much easier. Gotta go to a wake now the healthiest guy I know just dropped dead tying his shoes 50 yrs old .
 
satcom said:
Sounds like your friend make a big mistake by not having someone qualified work with this j-man first, to see if he had the experience he claimed.

I agree, should've checked him out before handing him a house, it's your friends license and reputation on the line. The majority of electricians I encounter don't really care about the code, they only know enough to do what they need to do. There are exceptions, like many of the people here, but generally, most only seem to care about their paycheck. Just my opinion.
 
Your thoughts please

It takes a long time and the right employment opportunities to learn all phases of electrical work.

The contractor was clearly at fault for sending him there blind.
 
i agree with the above----always send a new guy out with a knowledgeable electrician before turning a job and apprentice to him!! another quality is attitude-- the contractor's real job is the placement of personnel into positions to make his business profitable.. if your too busy to do this job--guess what--- your too dang busy!!!!!!!!!!
 
I believe that it's true as a rule. I had been in the trades about three years when my old boss hired a guy with a lot more years (commercial) and sent us out to do a house. About half way through he finally turned to me and said "it's a good thing you know what we're doing":smile:

Not knowing the applicable codes and being a bad electrician are two different things.
 
IMO there are fewer people getting full rounded experiance - only doing one thing. Reason is companies are getting into niche markets - the employees never get both sides that way. But I have said this before - "You're an electrician, or you're not" If you're only doing tract homes your whole career and nothing else - you're just a robot. Likewise if you're only doing this, or that, etc. Can't be bothered to read a code book to see what additional requirements are when faced with situations new to you.... :rolleyes:

J-box, In the past, and on occassion I will wire residential all in #12 - I used to work for a company where it was policy only to have no smaller than 12's on anything... That said a critique or two here and there may help this guy be a much better more broadly experianced guy some day. Live and learn....
 
My boss gives me a hard time once in a while saying I didn't know there was so much to electrical before I started with him. He is not an electrician, but we are one of the more well-rounded companies in the area. We do motor re-winding, controls, generators, as well as residential and light commercial. I definitely admit to being one-dementional when it comes to resi vs comm. I can hold my own in commercial, but housing is what I learned and it is what I do. Not saying I am the best, no way, but it is what I do. I was visiting MD this weekend and was having dinner with my brother (fire alarm systems and comm.) and his girlfriend, also an electrician and we were discussing the differences. Not related to her, but more towards the OP, but I take offense at electricians that say, "Residential, no problem." I made the statement this weekend and we'll see it I get heat from it here :smile: ;) , but I think residential is harder to run and keep track of, but commercial is the harder more percise work. Anyone can pull romex, but it takes talent and skill to run metal conduit. On the flip side, I'll take a set of engineered blueprints with receptacle A coming from circuit 12 in panel E4 any day over penciled in "elecrical" plans any day. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot to coordinate on the commercial end, I've been there and I don't want it. I like pulling NM. I like doing it faster, neater, and better than last time.

Edit to add: BTW, I haven't even scratched the surface of the work that is out there. I am humbled and in awe of the many variations to our trade and the knowledge and experience of this forum and of the industry in general. Electricians can become very one-dementional in what they do. Not necessarily a bad thing because you can become very good at what you do.
 
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I have never wired a house and probably never will, I am a commercial/industrial service technician. Everyone has their thing, mine isn't residential. It just doesn't interest me, way too many residential specific codes and if you don't do it all the time you will have a hard time wiring perfectly to code IMHSO. I prefer to run pipe and troubleshoot/wire machines. Doing industrial service work there is always something different to keep me interested. Maybe I'm wrong but resi just looks way to repetitive as does commercial construction. I'll stick to service work, you guys can keep all that production orientated work. JMHSO!
 
I have worked commercail my entire career 20 yr.s now
although my education for trade school is navy CE/CB 1 year school only , 4 yr,s non union trade school work days, school at nights working on office buildings core and tenant then went union 2 more years of school (the last two of a 4 year apprenticeship , I got credit for the education I had ) and have never wired a house except on the side, our union strives to put out qualified men , well rounded but they do not mean residential because we do not do residential
I know plenty of electricians who are fantastic but do not know there way around a house and don't care to

Our trade is so vast it is inevitble that guys all know something better than the next about a differant aspect
I for one love pipe, rigid pipe exposed and am fast and good at it , I hate terminations and pulling mc -
pulling big wire is a another speicalty
so you see we are all differant and what is monotous to me may not be for you :roll:
 
as an electrician you should know at least the basic codes required for different buildings. my company i work with will take a job from anyone. one day we can be fishing in plugs in someones house and the day after we can be in a health care facility the next. so i think any electrician that reads and understands teh code can do residental if they are just a commercial electrician.
 
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