One family dwelling RV attachment receptacle!

[K1llah03z]

This might be a rabbit hole. I’ve asked a few inspectors and they are all telling me that’s great question! Do RV attachment receptacles need to be GFCI protected per 2020 nec. I could argue the fact the 210.8 does not apply because this attachment receptacle is not a branch circuit. A branch circuit is The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet. If RVs have their own ocpd inside the Rv that would make the wire feeding the receptacle a feeder. Is there any clarification on this subject?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the RV doesn't require gfci then I agree with you that gfci is not required on the feeder.

 

[roger]

What the unit equipment has onboard in the way of OCPD's does not matter, the premise wiring defines the feeder or branch circuit. Many items that plug into receptacles have miniature circuit breakers or fuse protection.

 

[infinity]

What the unit equipment has onboard in the way of OCPD's does not matter, the premise wiring defines the feeder or branch circuit. Many items that plug into receptacles have miniature circuit breakers or fuse protection.

I was thinking the same thing, my Christmas lights have integral fuse protection. The wiring and receptacle are still a branch circuit. Certainly something other than an RV can be plugged into the receptacle.

 

[augie47]

In our department's infinite wisdom they have ruled that a listed RV receptacle and enclosure such as the ones manufactured by Milbank is "utilization equipment" and no GFCI is required. If it's simply a 30 or 50 amp "off the shelf" receptacle then GFCI is required.

 

[ptonsparky]

In our department's infinite wisdom they have ruled that a listed RV receptacle and enclosure such as the ones manufactured by Milbank is "utilization equipment" and no GFCI is required. If it's simply a 30 or 50 amp "off the shelf" receptacle then GFCI is required.

Woa, that is great. IDK how that was rationalized,but OK!

 

[ptonsparky]

Woa, that is great. IDK how that was rationalized,but OK!

Just a tad of sarcasm in case it was missed.
We installed a Midwest receptacle, as you describe, a few years ago but protected it with GFCI. A few days later the customer plugged in a bastardized camper trailer turned into a ‘Food Trailer’. Saved someone a very nasty shock at the least.

 

[roger]

In our department's infinite wisdom they have ruled that a listed RV receptacle and enclosure such as the ones manufactured by Milbank is "utilization equipment" and no GFCI is required. If it's simply a 30 or 50 amp "off the shelf" receptacle then GFCI is required.

If they are addressing something like bellow I can see it making sense, you would basically be feeding a sub panel and the branch circuit would start there.


However, I don't think that was what the OP was asking about.

 

[texie]

This might be a rabbit hole. I’ve asked a few inspectors and they are all telling me that’s great question! Do RV attachment receptacles need to be GFCI protected per 2020 nec. I could argue the fact the 210.8 does not apply because this attachment receptacle is not a branch circuit. A branch circuit is The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet. If RVs have their own ocpd inside the Rv that would make the wire feeding the receptacle a feeder. Is there any clarification on this subject?

This has been finally been made clear in 551.71(F) in the 2023 edition. GFCI is not required in an RV pedestal for the 30 or 50 amp receps.
What is still not clear is whether the would apply outside of an RV park in, say, a dwelling. In my view it should because, as you say, these outlets are really feeders when used with an RV. I would just require the RV receps to be in a listed RV panel and pass it.

 

[roger]

In my view it should because, as you say, these outlets are really feeders when used with an RV.

So in your view Rob's Christmas lights changes his receptacle branch circuit to a feeder?

 

[infinity]

This has been finally been made clear in 551.71(F) in the 2023 edition.

551.71 is in Part VI. Recreational Vehicle Parks and should not apply to a receptacle at a dwelling. The dwelling receptacle would fall under the standard 210.8 rules.

 

[texie]

So in your view Rob's Christmas lights changes his receptacle branch circuit to a feeder?

No, this would clearly be wrong. I'm saying that the CMP has determined that in an RV park the 30 and 50 amp site receps in a listed RV panel are for feeders to an RV and no GFCI is required. Prior to the 2023 edition this far less clear.
I also implied that this would not likely meet the letter of the code outside of an RV park at a dwelling.

 

[wwhitney]

So in your view Rob's Christmas lights changes his receptacle branch circuit to a feeder?

It would if it had a UL 489 Circuit Breaker in it. But certainly it instead has a UL 1077 Supplementary Protector in it.

See the Article 100 definitions for "Overcurrent Protective Device, Branch-Circuit" and "Overcurrent Protective Device, Supplementary."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

No, this would clearly be wrong. I'm saying that the CMP has determined that in an RV park the 30 and 50 amp site receps in a listed RV panel are for feeders to an RV and no GFCI is required. Prior to the 2023 edition this far less clear

Yes the 2023 did add some wording regarding the 30 and 50 amp receptacles. The 2020 also had the same requirements just that the wording is less clear.

 

[Little Bill]

551.71 is in Part VI. Recreational Vehicle Parks and should not apply to a receptacle at a dwelling. The dwelling receptacle would fall under the standard 210.8 rules.

Aren't the GFCI requirements for 15A & 20A, 120V? The RV is a 30A receptacle. I'm not speaking of the new requirements for 240V, 50A circuits.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What the unit equipment has onboard in the way of OCPD's does not matter, the premise wiring defines the feeder or branch circuit. Many items that plug into receptacles have miniature circuit breakers or fuse protection.

Yes, but those are supplementary overcurrent protective devices. That would not change the definition for a branch circuit.

 

[roger]

Yes, but those are supplementary overcurrent protective devices. That would not change the definition for a branch circuit.

Ok, so let's forget the OCPD issue and say I install a 4 wire range receptacle outside for a portable outside kitchen or my brothers RV when he comes to visit. Under the current code does it require GFCI protection? Is it a branch circuit or a feeder as far as the inspector is concerned?

 

[infinity]

Aren't the GFCI requirements for 15A & 20A, 120V? The RV is a 30A receptacle. I'm not speaking of the new requirements for 240V, 50A circuits.

Since this is a dwelling 210.8(F) applies.

210.8(F) Outdoor Outlets.
All outdoor outlets for dwellings, other than those covered in 210.8(A)(3), Exception to (3), that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[letgomywago]

Since this is a dwelling 210.8(F) applies.

Thus could be affected by the standalone pedestal then vs mounted on side of dwelling then as well

 

[infinity]

Thus could be affected by the standalone pedestal then vs mounted on side of dwelling then as well

What code section would provide relief from the GFCI requirement for a pedestal located at a dwelling?