One family dwelling unit?

[hhsting]

I have comdominiums and in one of the units of condominiums i have renovation where installing jacuzzi tub. NEC 2017 Article 680.41 says requirement shall not apply to one family dwelling.

Would the unit be considered one family dwelling or multi family dwelling?

 

[LarryFine]

If each unit is an individual dwelling, the building must be multi-family.

 

[hhsting]

If each unit is an individual dwelling, the building must be multi-family.

Yea but NEC 2017 Article 680.41 apply to this unit or not?

 

[wwhitney]

I have comdominiums and in one of the units of condominiums i have renovation where installing jacuzzi tub. NEC 2017 Article 680.41 says requirement shall not apply to one family dwelling.

Jacuzzi tub sounds like something that could be a "hydromassage bathtub," in which case it would be subject to Article 680 Part VII, not part IV.

Is this something that will be drained after each use, or not?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[roger]

Yea but NEC 2017 Article 680.41 apply to this unit or not?

Larry explained it is an individual dwelling unit as in One Family

 

[hhsting]

Jacuzzi tub sounds like something that could be a "hydromassage bathtub," in which case it would be subject to Article 680 Part VII, not part IV.

Is this something that will be drained after each use, or not?

Cheers, Wayne

I ask designer. I dont know. Its in dewelling bathroom. Whats the difference?


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[wwhitney]

I ask designer. I dont know. Its in dewelling bathroom. Whats the difference?

See the definitions at the beginning of Article 680. Definitions are always the place to start.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Larry explained it is an individual dwelling unit as in One Family

The definition in Article 100 of "Dwelling, One Family" is "A building that consists solely of one dwelling unit."

So it sounds like the OP has a dwelling unit which is not in a one family dwelling. That does make the wording of 680.41 a bit odd, it exempts only one family dwellings. I would expect it to exempt areas within a dwelling unit, or outside a one family dwelling.

Regardless, the original question is likely moot, as a jacuzzi tub is likely not a spa or hot tub.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tortuga]

I have comdominiums and in one of the units of condominiums i have renovation where installing jacuzzi tub. NEC 2017 Article 680.41 says requirement shall not apply to one family dwelling.

Would the unit be considered one family dwelling or multi family dwelling?

Per the definition as soon as any other type of occupancy is attached to or combined with a 'building' that was a SFD it is nolonger a one family dwelling.
Had an example recently with a house that had a 'guest suite' (NEC definition) or monther -inlaw apartment added, that building is no longer a one family dwelling.

 

[infinity]

A dwelling unit and a one family dwelling unit are not the same. A dwelling unit can be in a multifamily dwelling, a one family dwelling unit can not be in the multi family.

 

[rc/retired]

Its in dewelling bathroom.


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To me, this means it is a hydromassage bath tub.

Ron

 

[tortuga]

There are 'townhouse' style condo developments where there are firewalls between the dwellings making each one its own building, therefore each one could be a SFD. So alot of this depends on other codes/zoning/land use laws etc not the NEC. The only time I run into this with a typical hot tub is a where a SFD has a guest suite added such as an air-bnb.

 

[roger]

The definition in Article 100 of "Dwelling, One Family" is "A building that consists solely of one dwelling unit."

So it sounds like the OP has a dwelling unit which is not in a one family dwelling. That does make the wording of 680.41 a bit odd, it exempts only one family dwellings. I would expect it to exempt areas within a dwelling unit, or outside a one family dwelling.

Regardless, the original question is likely moot, as a jacuzzi tub is likely not a spa or hot tub.

Cheers, Wayne

I agree however, if someone came into my individual dwelling unit and shut my Jaccuzzi off while I was in it I might shoot them.

In reality there is no reason for there to be an emergency shut off in a single family unit.

 

[infinity]

There are 'townhouse' style condo developments where there are firewalls between the dwellings making each one its own building, therefore each one could be a SFD. So alot of this depends on other codes/zoning/land use laws etc not the NEC. The only time I run into this with a typical hot tub is a where a SFD has a guest suite added such as an air-bnb.

IMO that does not meet the NEC definition of one family dwelling.

Dwelling, One-Family.
A building that consists solely of one dwelling unit.

 

[wwhitney]

IMO that does not meet the NEC definition of one family dwelling.

See the NEC's definition of "building." Townhouses (condos where each unit runs from grade to the roof) separated by fire walls are each an individual building, so each one is a One Family Dwelling.

Building "A structure that stands alone or that is separated from adjoining structures by fire walls."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rc/retired]

The jurisdiction I worked for used the descriptions, IIRC,

Single family dwelling - A building that consists solely of one dwelling unit.
Single family attached - Multiple single family dwelling units attached with a minimum 2 hour separation rating with a property line between units. Townhouse style
Multi-family - A building that contains 3 or more dwelling units. Usually with a 1 hour separation rating between units. This could be a condo style or a townhouse style.

Ron

 

[wwhitney]

The jurisdiction I worked for used the descriptions, IIRC,

Did your jurisdiction amend the NEC? If not, they need to be using the NEC definitions for applying the NEC. The terms and definitions may differ from the IBC/IRC.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tortuga]

SFD vs dwelling unit does not make a ton of difference except for hot tubs (spas) and load calculations,
the slight difference can be a huge gotcha, for example I can't use an optional calc with a set of plans that contain a 'dwelling unit' and a 'guest suite' in one 'building'.
If that guest suite is a 'vacation rental' or short term rental licensed & permitted by the town as such then you have the general public using the spa I'd say you could require 680.41 then.

 

[infinity]

Did your jurisdiction amend the NEC? If not, they need to be using the NEC definitions for applying the NEC. The terms and definitions may differ from the IBC/IRC

You're correct there may be some variation in the definition because the NEC definition of a building is garbage since they do not define what a firewall is. Would a 100 unit apartment structure be 100 buildings since all of the units are separated by firewalls?

 

[rc/retired]

Did your jurisdiction amend the NEC? If not, they need to be using the NEC definitions for applying the NEC. The terms and definitions may differ from the IBC/IRC.

Cheers, Wayne

They didn't amend the NEC. I believe they used the definitions from the building code.
We use the NEC for electrical installations.
It just simplifies terms like condominium and townhouse, which can be confusing.

Ron