domnic said:I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PRIMARY CURRENT.
Did you pull this number from between your buttocks??? I have been told current only returns to the source many times on this forum. Please elaborate.mivey said:I'm guessing 10-100 milliamps through the earth. So I'm guessing 19.9 to 19.99 amps on the grounded conductor and 0.01 to 0.1 amps through the earth.
quogueelectric said:Did you pull this number from between your buttocks??? I have been told current only returns to the source many times on this forum. Please elaborate.
The earth is a parallel conductor back to the source. While the earth has a low resistance, the connections to it through ground rods make it a relatively high impedance path as compared to the neutral, but it is still a path.quogueelectric said:Did you pull this number from between your buttocks??? I have been told current only returns to the source many times on this forum. Please elaborate.
primary 19 amps on hot 1 amp on grounded conductor .single phase these # came from the lineman checking to see why a pool is shocking home owner .i checked pool water witch is bonded to home and i get 1.6 to 3.1 when the load on the increases the voltage increases from water to earth.djohns6 said:20 amps on the primary ? I'm assuming you pulled that number out of the air .
I think a sketch of where the measurements were taken and how the conductors run to the transformer would help.domnic said:primary 19 amps on hot 1 amp on grounded conductor .single phase these # came from the lineman checking to see why a pool is shocking home owner .i checked pool water witch is bonded to home and i get 1.6 to 3.1 when the load on the increases the voltage increases from water to earth.
sorry. 20 amp on hot and 19 amp on grounded conductor.mivey said:I think a sketch of where the measurements were taken and how the conductors run to the transformer would help.
If you measured 19 amps on the primary and 1 amp on the neutral, then you obviously have neutral problems and your current is running on the grounding conductor instead of the grounded conductor like it should.
Sounds better. How were the readings taken? Did they use a device that measured the current simultaneously or did they use a clamp-on meter and move from one wire to the other? How accurate was the meter?domnic said:sorry. 20 amp on hot and 19 amp on grounded conductor.
primary 19 amps on hot 1 amp on grounded conductor .single phase these # came from the lineman checking to see why a pool is shocking home owner .i checked pool water witch is bonded to home and i get 1.6 to 3.1 when the load on the increases the voltage increases from water to earth.
At least it is still the first page.brian john said:Durn I love getting the complete story at the start of a thread.
But it does not have to be complicated for our rough estimate.jghrist said:How much current flows in the ground and how much in the neutral is complicated. It depends on the mutual inductance between the neutral and earth, between the neutral and the phase wire, the ground resistance of every ground on the multigrounded neutral, and the distance to the source substation, as well as the impedance of the phase wire and neutral.
Phase to ground fault currents generally flow mostly in the neutral close to the fault and close to the substation, but mostly in the earth in the middle part of the line. This is the case for long lines; for short lines almost all of the current stays in the neutral.
Another complicating matter for load currents is that the current in the neutral only has to flow until it is balanced by loads on the other phases. When the three phases are balanced, there is no neutral current (or ground current).
If cutting off the pool load at the breaker removes the problem, why would you call a lineman out to check into the problem? If it does remove the problem, then the pool has a problem, not the service or primary. I don't think we have the information needed to make that determination, and we are trying to get more information. You are making guesses like everybody else and also requesting more information, so I don't get this:glene77is said:to Mivey,
At 7200V and 20A, I see 144 KW.
At 240V and 144 KW, I see 600A.
I see Some Big Campsite House! or multiple houses. we can only guess.
What concerns me is that there is great concern
about missing specifications,
good guesses,
some measurements. how do you help solve a problem without information?
The pool is shocking someone, and needs to be fixed! that is the goal
If the Service Primary Voltage is 7.2 KV, single phase,
and the Service Primary is 20 Amps, and the Secondary is only 19 Amps ,
and that calculates to 144 KW,
then there is 7.2 KW running somewhere else, perhaps through Earth. Not correct.
Which brings me back to
The pool is shocking someone, and needs to be fixed! agree again
It sounds like the pool is at some good distance from the house Neutral,
and requires better neutral return to the house Neutral. based on what info?
Would it be appropriate to measure the Voltage from the pool to earth.
Would it be appropriate to raise the size of the wiring to the pool,
in order to decrease resistance in the Neutral Return Conductors?
Then Measure voltage again?
Would it be appropriate to measure the Voltage from the pool to ground(earth) and try a ground rod at the pool.
Then Measure votage again?
I think it would be appropriate to get more information needed to make a diagnosis, which you also seem to agree with.
I used to be the electrician at a university hospital, and I measured micro-amps leakage in equipment, which was attached intravenously into patients. The JCAH requires very low available current in patient areas.
Similarly, persons in a pool of ionized (chlorine) water can be subject to shocking experiences at levels lower than the 5 mA. Even tingling shocks can be enough to make swimming difficult, and drowning possible.
For an example, since I did research on this at the university, a persons normal skin resistance (DRY) varies from 10 K ohm to 1 Meg ohm, depending on the person, the calouse layer, the level of perspiration, the after-shave lotion applied by hand, etc. Skin Saturated in chlorine (ionized) water can possibly drop to 1 K ohm.
Continuing the example, let's say there is a pool lamp underwater,
with faulting leakage to the drain (earth).
Let's say the voltage gradient from the lamp to the earth is 30 Volts.
Let's say the distance from the lamp to drain is 12 feet.
Let's say that a persons WET skin resistance is down to 10 K ohm.
Let's say the finger tip to foot distance is 6 feet.
= The voltage gradient from finger to toe is 6/12 * 30 Volts.
= That places 1.5 mA through the human system.
= That tingling shock can make swimming difficult.
This is the real problem at the pool.
Any suggestions on how to resolve the problem,
other than waiting for more measurements and information?
glene77is said:What concerns me is that there is great concern
about missing specifications,
good guesses,
some measurements
That's what happens when you shift it.:grin:Sharpie said:I've never seen an 8 inch ground rod before:grin: