Only 2 options.

[GG]

I have a customer who has a house for sale and the new buyer wants some electrical work done and is trying to decide between 2 options. The house has ALL aluminum wiring. The 2 options are (1) replace the main panel and run 4 dedicated circuits to the kitchen, and 1 to each bathroom. Or (2) install copper pigtails on all the switches, and receptacles. Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why? TY.

 

[peter d]

I would run as fast as I can in the opposite direction.

 

[celtic]

Re: Only 2 options.

Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why?

As a BUYER, I would chose the mega combo 3 (options 1 & 2) and insist the SELLER pay for it all.

Why?
Because I am the BUYER and you are the SELLER.
I have my choice of homes to buy and you have to unload your house so you can buy/complete the deal on your next choice of homes or just want/need the money.
I don't have to buy your house, but - apparently - you have to sell it :twisted:

 

[jjhoward]

Why only those two options?
Why not replace all of the wires?
Especially the bedroom wiring.
It is a very time consuming job, but I wouldn't want any AL branch junk in my home.
As an EC I will NEVER install pigtails on AL junk. Either replace it all or just don't get involved with the job.

 

[larryl]

i agree w/ peter on this one,,,RUN,,

 

[JohnE]

As prospective new owner, I'd seriously consider Peter's recommendation.

As prospective owner choosing only 2 options, I'd opt for option 2 since option 1 may ignore some existing hazardous conditions in unaddressed outlets.

edit: ; to '

 

[gndrod]

TY,
As a buyer, not knowing anything about aluminum wiring, but being told that there is a possible health hazard, I would get a bid and then ask for the house to be completely rewired. Now if this house is being sold at a discount for wiring compensation, and I knew what I know as an electrician, I would accept the offer providing the local comps show that the house is worth a good turn-around profit in the future. If the house is over 2000 sf with vaulted ceiling run wiring...forgetaboutit. You can see that it really depends on the condition, size, configuration and location of the house. Not asking too much am I, but then ask is the seller anxious to unload? Then I would look at the monetary possibilities.
rbj, Seattle

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I would want more information. Is the aluminum the newer alloy that came on the market about 1973 and are the devices CO/ALR? If the answer to both is yes then I wouldn't do anything. A properly installed system of that combination has no more problems than a copper system.
Don

 

[celtic]

The question is:
"Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why?"

..not:
"Which option would you choose if you were the EC and why?"

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Only 2 options.

As a BUYER, I would chose the mega combo 3 (options 1 & 2) and insist the SELLER pay for it all.

Why?
Because I am the BUYER and you are the SELLER.
I have my choice of homes to buy and you have to unload your house so you can buy/complete the deal on your next choice of homes or just want/need the money.
I don't have to buy your house, but - apparently - you have to sell it :twisted:

As the seller I would say go eff yourself. :roll:

As a reasonable person I would choose option 1.

As an electrician I would go with Peters option.

 

[JohnE]

The question is:
"Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why?"

..not:
"Which option would you choose if you were the EC and why?"

Good point. You'd make a good deputy for Scott. :wink:

 

[ron]

Somehow the original terminations worked for 30 years or so. I would install a device listed for AL or pigtail the AL to CU and install a regular device.
Any termination made poorly will prematurely fail. Make sure the terminations are done properly.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Re: Only 2 options.

I have a customer who has a house for sale and the new buyer wants some electrical work done and is trying to decide between 2 options. The house has ALL aluminum wiring. The 2 options are (1) replace the main panel and run 4 dedicated circuits to the kitchen, and 1 to each bathroom. Or (2) install copper pigtails on all the switches, and receptacles. Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why? TY.

What does having all aluminum wiring have to do with replacing the service? It looks like the options they are considering are replacing the service OR making the aluminum wiring safe. We replace devices with COLAR devices for aluminum and pigtail GFI's and lighting with COLAR rated wirenuts. You have to pigtail for 4 ways, but that is pretty rare.

 

[celtic]

Re: Only 2 options.

As the seller I would say go eff yourself. :roll:

..too which I would say:
Well, good luck trying to unload this thing...call me when you come to your senses.

Having been involved in numerous RE transactions, I've learned (learnt?) a few things:
- there's an ass (no offense to anyone) for every chair.
Eventually the house will be sold/bought by terms that are either agreeable/unagreeable to both parties - both sides are equaly satisfied/dissatisfied with the transaction.

- never "fall in love" with a property.
There are far too many houses on the market to accept a house that you percieve to have "flaws". Reminds me of buying a used car when the salesman says - If you don't commit NOW, I have another buyer coming in an hour for this car....sure ya do. :lol:

- stick to your guns.
I made an offer, now it is YOUR turn to counter-offer. Too many sellers are under the impression that their home is their castle...well, it was - right up until it went on the market, now it's just another commidity.

I can go eff myself, no problem...just remember, you HAD an interested buyer - now you are equally "effed". LOL

There's more, but I'll leave it at that....


...while I wait for the seller (aka electricmanscott) to come to his senses...it might take another 6 months, but that just means I have MORE properties to choose from. ...while you to again deal with the REA setting up veiwing during dinner hours, on weekends, arranging open houses (all of which have already occurred at least once) further disrupting your life. Meanwhile, we (Mrs. Celtic and myself) will take a nice ride and maybe find that 4 bedroom ranch with the inground pool that we really want!.

 

[GG]

Im just going by what these 2 people, the HO and the buyer, are telling me, They are both engineers, have friends that work as electricians ( as if I give a flying F%$#), but they think they know more than me and wont listen to what I propose. I guess Im going to tell them Monday I dont want their job. I think pigtails are a waste of my time and the owners money, how is putting a 6" peice of copper onto aluminum wiring with a purple wire nut that has been shown to be worthless, going to accomplish anything? Its not. The idea of the new panel was to get rid of the federal pacific crap and maybe better protect the circuits with the new breakers. Normally I gut the house and rewire it with all copper, let a sheetrocker come in a patch the dozen or so holes I made and Im done, but these engineers want to make this little project more than what it is. I guess they have nothing better to do with their time. I do, so they can go play with another EC.

 

[celtic]

Re: Only 2 options.

The 2 options are (1) replace the main panel and run 4 dedicated circuits to the kitchen, and 1 to each bathroom. Or (2) install copper pigtails on all the switches, and receptacles.

What does having all aluminum wiring have to do with replacing the service?

It's just the panel, not the service....maybe it's an FPE or some other quality brand? :roll:

 

[celtic]

The question is:
"Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why?"

..not:
"Which option would you choose if you were the EC and why?"

Good point. You'd make a good deputy for Scott. :wink:

..ummm, what am I deputy of? the spelling police

 

[don_resqcapt19]

bradley,

We replace devices with COLAR devices for aluminum and pigtail GFI's and lighting with COLAR rated wirenuts.

Do the CO/ALR devices work well with the old aluminum alloy? They came on the market at the same time as the new aluminum alloy and were specifically designed for the new alloy conductors?
Don

 

[JohnE]

The question is:
"Which option would you choose if you were the new home owner and why?"

..not:
"Which option would you choose if you were the EC and why?"

Good point. You'd make a good deputy for Scott. :wink:

..ummm, what am I deputy of? the spelling police

You are a Deputy in the Forum Police in order to keep threads on topic, of course. If you choose to enforce spelling too, then all the better for us lowly posters. Let me know where to send any reinspection fees.

 

[JohnE]

I think pigtails are a waste of my time and the owners money, how is putting a 6" peice of copper onto aluminum wiring with a purple wire nut that has been shown to be worthless, going to accomplish anything? Its not.

Opening every box, installing pigtails, and presumably replacing divices while you're at it will allow you to inspect and alleviate many possibly failing terminations. Your option 1 ignores many possible sources of problems. It does address other problems though.

With that said, I would not say that either option completely addresses the situation. Others have elaborated on what to do.

If these customers won't take your recommendations, I wouldn't get involved, as you said.