operatiing voltage @ 208V

[Toros]

Hi,
I have a new build 1-family home that has 600A. 3ph, 120/208 service (All sub panels throughout the house are 120/208V,3 ph.

Question is ,
Do common house hold 2-pole, 1-phase, (not-120v) appliances such as, laundry, 2-pole pumps, A.C units will work properly with 208V, 1-phase????

GGenerally question; do 240v appliances work on 208V , 2-pole???

City plan checker says that we need to puchase appliances that operate with 208v, 1 ph???

Thank you

 

[Coppersmith]

Do common house hold 2-pole, 1-phase, (not-120v) appliances such as, laundry, 2-pole pumps, A.C units will work properly with 208V, 1-phase????

GGenerally question; do 240v appliances work on 208V , 2-pole???

City plan checker says that we need to puchase appliances that operate with 208v, 1 ph???

2 pole breakers will be 208 volts.

Some appliances can tolerate 208 volts and some cannot. You need the check the specs for each appliance to see. The data plate on the appliance should also tell you.

 

[Electric-Light]

The answer is common enough.

What absurdity calls for a service with over 200kVA of capacity for a single family home in California? The transformer can be smaller than the kVA of all the houses added together but it can't be smaller than the single largest service so a 200kVA transformer just for this house?

I can't see why the power company would even connect a single family home on this kind of capacity. Or this house is perhaps on a different scale. I can't imagine how much the bill would be on a residential schedule at top tier rate for kWh usage to justify such a service. It will be so high that he's going to trip and fall on LED yard lights he just had CALCTP installers put in on his way back from the mailbox and drown in his own LEED certified garden pond.

 

[hbiss]

Ahhh, and such is life in California. Maybe there will be lots of gro lights.

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

Question is ,
Do common house hold 2-pole, 1-phase, (not-120v) appliances such as, laundry, 2-pole pumps, A.C units will work properly with 208V, 1-phase????

GGenerally question; do 240v appliances work on 208V , 2-pole???

City plan checker says that we need to puchase appliances that operate with 208v, 1 ph???

Thank you

99% chance the A/C will be rated for 208 and 240V, 90% chance the pool pump will work on 208V. Electric appliances resistance elements will put out 15% less heat, the elements won't care but the people who have to live with it will so that's a good reason to get 208V elements.

 

[Toros]

208V

208V

2 pole breakers will be 208 volts.

Some appliances can tolerate 208 volts and some cannot. You need the check the specs for each appliance to see. The data plate on the appliance should also tell you.

I think the house hold motorized appliances operate fine on 208v through 240V 1 phase 60 hertz
I have seen lot of shopping centers with 120/208V and have 1 phase appliances
specialy restuarants in those shopping centers.

What is the science behind this????

and why the utility companies provide this kind of voltage anyway, if the some percetage of appliances may not work properly??????

 

[Toros]

Hi,
I have a new build 1-family home that has 600A. 3ph, 120/208 service (All sub panels throughout the house are 120/208V,3 ph.

Question is ,
Do common house hold 2-pole, 1-phase, (not-120v) appliances such as, laundry, 2-pole pumps, A.C units will work properly with 208V, 1-phase????

GGenerally question; do 240v appliances work on 208V , 2-pole???

City plan checker says that we need to puchase appliances that operate with 208v, 1 ph???

Thank you

I think the house hold motorized appliances operate fine on 208v through 240V 1 phase 60 hertz
I have seen lot of shopping centers with 120/208V and have 1 phase appliances
specialy restuarants in those shopping centers.

What is the science behind this????

and why the utility companies provide this kind of voltage anyway, if the some percetage of appliances may not work properly??????

 

[Electric-Light]

I think the house hold motorized appliances operate fine on 208v through 240V 1 phase 60 hertz
I have seen lot of shopping centers with 120/208V and have 1 phase appliances
specialy restuarants in those shopping centers.

What is the science behind this????

and why the utility companies provide this kind of voltage anyway, if the some percetage of appliances may not work properly??????

Yeah so what appliances at home worries you? Do they happen to be something that run about 1,000w through a pencil sized tube filled with hot molten sodium metal?

 

[JFletcher]

The only thing Ive seen recently here that would not work was some tungsten filament space heaters (dont remember the brand but they were fairly high end). Actually they do work, but you have to buy either 208V or 240V elements.

Some 3ph motors are rated straight 230V and will not be happy on 208V. Grow lamp ballasts have taps for 208V and 240V (along with 120, 277, and sometimes 480V).

I cant remember which brand, but some AFCI or GFCI breakers designed for 240V will not work on 208; I guess it has to do with the phase angle being 120* instead of 180* for split phase.

Fancy European appliances may take issue with 208V vs 240V but that is a wag.

Other than those things, I dont see any problems with your 600A 208V 3ph service, aside from the enormous power bill if run anywhere near capacity. That electric bill would be more than most people's mortgages. I think I figured a while back that a constant 15A draw 24/7 all month would put one's bill in the neighborhood of $350 @ $0.12/kw-hr, but that's neither here not there.

If the HO needs 240V, you can just use a buck/boost xfmr to a panel that supplies 240V 1 and 3 ph loads.

The only way to get both voltages in one system is with a high leg delta, and even that's restrictive as using B leg to neutral to run 1ph 208V loads is very limited, and the 3 phase is 240V only.

 

[JFletcher]

99% chance the A/C will be rated for 208 and 240V, 90% chance the pool pump will work on 208V. Electric appliances resistance elements will put out 15% less heat, the elements won't care but the people who have to live with it will so that's a good reason to get 208V elements.

Actually it's 25% less heat:

P=V²/R

208 x 208
----------- = 75.1%
240 x 240

 

[kwired]

I think the house hold motorized appliances operate fine on 208v through 240V 1 phase 60 hertz
I have seen lot of shopping centers with 120/208V and have 1 phase appliances
specialy restuarants in those shopping centers.

What is the science behind this????

and why the utility companies provide this kind of voltage anyway, if the some percetage of appliances may not work properly??????

The science behind using three phase is you get 1.732 times more power just with one additional supply conductor, plus you balance load better on the source which is generated as three phase - though that is somewhat more the POCO's problem then the customers.

600 amp 208 volt three phase is 216,154 VA. Can use 600 amp conductors and 600 amp gear for the supply equipment.

To be able to handle same VA with 240 volt single phase you have one less conductor, but the conductors used will need to be 900 amp conductors. Switchgear or panelboards used will likely be rated 1200 amps, and likely cost more then 600 amp gear, and might have the third bus present anyway even though it isn't used.

 

[Toros]

@ 280v

@ 280v

Hi,
I have a new build 1-family home that has 600A. 3ph, 120/208 service (All sub panels throughout the house are 120/208V,3 ph.

Question is ,
Do common house hold 2-pole, 1-phase, (not-120v) appliances such as, laundry, 2-pole pumps, A.C units will work properly with 208V, 1-phase????

GGenerally question; do 240v appliances work on 208V , 2-pole???

City plan checker says that we need to puchase appliances that operate with 208v, 1 ph???

Thank you

How about 208V, 1 phase Restaurant appliances
like, microvave, mixer, walk-in freezer...
Do they operate well @ 208V ????

 

[kwired]

How about 208V, 1 phase Restaurant appliances
like, microvave, mixer, walk-in freezer...
Do they operate well @ 208V ????

Sure hope so, or did you mean to ask if they operate well @ 240V?

 

[Jraef]

Bottom line;
Most 230V motors under 5HP will likely say on the nameplate, 208-230V, and provide two different FLA values for the two voltages. Most HVAC equipment for a place that large will be commercial grade, so since 208V is the standard for light commercial services, it's not likely going to be an issue.

Most modern washers and dryers now have little inverter powered motors, they will not care. If you have a rich celebrity that can afford a 600A service and pay $.34/kWh (yes, that's the rate in the middle of the day here now) for it, the chances are they will be buying top end appliances.

Most SMALL appliances that have motors in them are 115V motors, so they will not care.

Most likely the cooking and heating is gas, which here in Cailfornia is dirt cheap and readily available. But even if they do have electric cooking appliances, they will simply take longer to cook things. Someone that rich likely has a chef, so the homeowner would never know.

So what's left? It's not Michael Jackson so there probably isn't a mini carnival in the back yard. An entertainment professional with a production studio? I did one of those years ago ( for Patty Duke at her retreat in Idaho) and although they do use a lot of power, it's mostly fed from UPS systems that are 208/120 anyway. Someone with a home machine shop? Maybe, but lots of those will use 5HP or under, so again, not a big deal.

So..., you should check, but I wouldn't get my panties in a twist about it. The only alternative is a 240/120 3 phase 4 wire Delta service (aka "High Leg"), but with that, your 120V loading is limited to 5% of the total transformer load and in a residence, 90% of your loads will be 120V plugs and lights. So really, you (they) have no choice. So if you find an appliance that MUST have 240V, simply add a boost transformer specifically to THAT load.

 

[Toros]

Sure hope so, or did you mean to ask if they operate well @ 240V?

yes