Opinions please

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electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Here is the deal as short and to the point as possible..
Woman referred to me by Kitchen Co I do work for. Wants undercabinet lights and a couple recessed lights installed. Go to house and discuss job. No details specified by her, none given by me other than two 5" recessed cans with white baffle trims, and halogen undercabinet lighting under cabinets. Verbally agree to price and date of work. Day of job get stuck at service call and call and let her know I won't make it. Set up another day. Go do job, husband is home and thrilled, get paid move on. Also job went faster than I planned and since I didn't make it the other day I reduced the agreed upon price by $227.00. :( Few days pass, she calls and says not happy with uc lights. She can see them as she enters the room. They are great when she is in the kitchen but a problem when you walk into the room. Explain that given the right distance from the cabinets and the fact that the lights are mounted under the cabinet you will probably see them from certain parts of the house. No good!.She mentions that you never see the lights in magazines. :roll: I suggest she have a light valance installed to hide the lights. Does not want to spend anymore money. She'd like me to install smaller lights or remove these. I don't see the size of the light fixture as an issue but the fact that it is a light under the cabinet. My view is that I did the job we agreed to and I have no obligation to do anything further because she is unhappy with the way it came out. Any opinions?
 
Re: Opinions please

Was the issue of visibility disscussed prior to start of work? What is the reveal of the cabinets hanging below the bottom edge. When we do custom homes, my boss demands to know the reveal, so we will know if our UC's will be concealed. BTW we use 12 volt tracks with killer plug in bulbs for UC applications. They don't hang down very muuch and the customer can plug in bulbs wherever they want.

We also demand to know how much reveal we have above the cabinets, because most of today's customers want lights installed in the top of their cabinets. Even though it only illuminates the top shelf.
 
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I've installed a heck of a lot of UC lighting, and I've never run into a prima-donna that complains about seeing the edge of the fixture at certain angles. God forbid you try to do that job in a home where midgets live. I'd tell her that it will cost 500 bucks to remove these UC lights, and then see what she says.
 
Re: Opinions please

Scott,
We here @ the dillon household, have been diligently working on your present/current situation. :D

Scott keeping in mind, it was (2)twice the labor involved,and its on the house brother..
 
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I dunno, Scott. I tend to try to explain every dimension of undercabinet lights to people, because at the end of the day, people are stupid.

Given that fact, I would make it clear to the people in question that a flutter of an eyelid on your part is going to cost them money. :)

When she says "smaller" that probably means shorter in profile. My guess is, shaving a 16th off the fixture is not going to reduce it visibility, and she's probably thinking they make an UC an 1/8" thick.

And that you'll do it for free for all the trouble. :D
 
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Once you get where you are there is no nice solution. She might be angling for more of a rebate.

Tell her you are going to charge her for the change, bring catalogue and leave it with retail prices. Have her choose lights since she is unhappy with your decision. Tell her that none of the lights will solve the problem, but you will be glad tio install the lights she chooses. Require added deposit and material cost up front, bring contract with her changes listed for her and hubby to sign. Either way tell your kitchen co what happened.

Her displeasure is with the architect she did not hire, but she is making you responsible for making her happy. That is too much of an unknown to ever assume liability for.

Don't kick yourself too much, but I bet you remember this one. Some part of me still suspects bs, angling for more of a rebate.

paul
 
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Scott I think these people just come looking for you :D

I'll bet she is a midget 4'10"?

years ago I was doing some condos that was kind of a assisted living to elderly. The specs wanted under cabinet fluorescents installed in the kitchen, this one home owner had tinnitus or something like that which they can hear a pin drop and tell you how many time it bounced.

She had every appliance taken back at least three times. we tried to get her to go with halogen but she didn't like the lite. (fluorescents made everything look clean she told us) I tried several brands to no avail, I finally took the quietest brand and isolated them from the cabinets with rubber fan mounts and foam padding, The cabinets was acting like a sound board. :roll:
 
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The good news is is that you've been paid. I would take one of two routes: 1) tell her that the lights you intalled are generally what there is and that if she is unhappy with the asthetics, she'll need to hire a carpenter to make a valance. Her husband must have been satisfied to the extent that you got paid. 2) if there are other lights, give her the option of having new lights installed at a price to included some kind of return fee for the ones you put in. That $277 would have come in handy now. :) Good luck.
 
Re: Opinions please

Scott, If she is happy with them once in the room, I think that you did what you were hired to do. Your discount of $227.00 is admirable, but was not necessary. If you want to fish, ask her if an additional discount would satisfy her with the situation. If she admits that it will, then I'd say that she is not unhappy with the installation at all. More like buyer's remorse. If a further discount still will not make her happy, then she is truly unsatisfied with the install. However, you did what you were contracted to do, and a further discount still is not in order. As you said, a lighting valance would solve the problem, but she is unwilling to spend the money. I think that explains a lot right there. Out of curiosity, what is the length of top cab's? I used to do work for a kitchen company who charge $10.00 per foot for lighting valance. $227.00 would buy 22 feet in that case.

Incidentally, when I do under cabinet lighting, I use Seagull Ambiance and gou out of my way to explain what it looks like, the size, and if a lighting valance might be required.

John
 
Re: Opinions please

Normally I go into pretty good detail about the lighting and the effects and appearance and such. I know enough to expect headaches and try to avoid them when possible. What happened here is she had her counter top replaced by the kitchen co. I had assumed that she had seen the undercabinet lighting in their showroom and that is where she got the thought of having it installed so I was a little lax in giving details. What I installed in her kitchen is what I have in their showroom for them to show their customers. I have to check with them to see if they showed it to her.
The end result I believe IS buyers remorse. She expected her kitchen to be magazine material for short money and it is not quite what she expected. Like I said she made no specifications other than halogen undercabinet lighting. I installed typical halogen uc lighting that I have installed in hundreds of kitchens with zero complaints or problems.
Thanks for the input.
 
Re: Opinions please

You did a job. You got paid. That chapter is closed.

Do you want to do another job? That's up to you. But it is a new job, not a continuation or a correction of the old job.
 
Re: Opinions please

my only concern would be clarifying any complaint the woman might pass on to the kitchen company, as it might effect future business.

paul
 
Re: Opinions please

Having a valance installed is the right way to go. No matter what fixture you install, it's not going to be acceptable without one. Been there, done that.
 
Re: Opinions please

Update
At her request I am going to move the lights back closer to the wall. They are currently about three inches out. I explained to her this will create a new problem. The light washing down the wall will be bright and defined in sections under each fixture. This is the reason the lights are pulled out some, to create a more diffuse light pattern.
I also explained that this will not make difference in seeing the light from the other room but she insists it will.
She also insists there are smaller lights I could use. Again this will not solve the issue of seeing the lights from the other room. In her words "They just hang from the bottom of the cabinet". Uh yeah exactly. I have a feeling this will end ugly. :roll:

[ November 02, 2005, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Opinions please

I trust you got a written agreement on the scope of the work, the price you will charge, and the fact that you informed the owner of your opinions with regard to the likelihood of a successful outcome?
 
Re: Opinions please

Originally posted by charlie b:
I trust you got a written agreement on the scope of the work, the price you will charge, and the fact that you informed the owner of your opinions with regard to the likelihood of a successful outcome?
Click to expand...
That would certainly be the right thing to do. Anyone who is a sole proprietor trying to make a living at this can understand that there are not enough hours in the day to get everything done. For most jobs I do get it in writing but sometimes you have to just wing it. I know some of you will say every job every time but to me that is unrealistic.
The good news is after 11 years in business the number of problems can be counted on one hand.

[ November 02, 2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Opinions please

Situation defused. Call off the air strike. Went out with a piece of light valance and she was thrilled. Took measurements for kitchen co and they will take it from there. Of course she made it seem like this was a brilliant new idea when in fact I told her about it when she complained about seeing the lights. :roll:

The funny part is she and her husband have been fighting over this for weeks. He thought the lights were fine and she was just a pain in the rump.
 
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