Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

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I work in the field of satellite installation and I am trying to develop a better understanding of grounding requirements.

It seems to me that requiring the mast of a television antenna to be grounded and that the coax wire be grounded as well was redundant. So, I tried to imagine scenarios where one might exist and the other didn't. I came up with the following:

If a television antenna was installed, but the wiring was 300 ohm twinlead wire (remember?) from the antenna to the television, then a ground block couldn't be installed on the wiring, right? I was thinking that the code requiring antenna masts be grounded is dated back to a time when you couldn't ground the wiring and so the only place to ground the system from overhead wiring, etc., was the mast of the antenna.

Now, enter CATV. When that system came along, the antenna and mast could be several miles away. Much too far for grounding if the ground block is miles away. So, I was thinking that the code was written to require CATV (and its coax wiring) be grounded at the subscriber's house.

So, with the two situations above, both systems could be present at the same house, both grounded in their respective fashions, and not be redundant.

Nowadays, television antennas and satellite dishes are installed using coax wiring. Since the NEC states that the coax is supposed to be grounded, and that ground method appears to be superior to the mast ground (#17 CCS), couldn't the code be altered to eliminate such redundancy? I am not suggesting that either requirement be eliminated entirely, but couldn't the television mast grounding requirement be rewritten to state that it is required ONLY when the signal wiring does not consist of coaxial wiring or if the wiring is not suitable for bonding to ground such as Cat 5e.

It would be nice if the NEC code did not require the redundancy we antenna installers face as a result of the code. I am aware of antennas that are in use that you can't ground the signal wire. Certain broadband antennas use Cat5e as the signal wire, and I think those would still have to be grounded at the mast, so that part of the code couldn't totally be eliminated.

The question is, could it be verified if the original intent of the code was for protection of systems that were separate at the time? I was contemplating researching this but I imagine it would require looking up text from the NEC as it had been written back when these antenna and CATV systems first started appearing. I could imagine the first antenna mast ground requirement is probably from an overhead line or drop coming into contact with a rooftop TV antenna, bringing dangerous current inside the house. I can also imagine CATV, which originally was distributed via overhead wiring, became hot from fallen power transmission lines, and brought dangerous current to a homeowner or cable installer. I am sure the code was written to prevent such situations, and redundancy was a side-effect of protecting both systems in a world where they existed separately. Any insight to this? Could redundancy possibly be eliminated in a future revision of code? I appreciate the input.
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

Perhaps you could research some other standards that may assist you.

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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BICSI - Telecommunications Distribution Methods Manual</font>
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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IEEE Std. 1100 - Power and Grounding Sensitive Electronic Equipment</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TIA/EIA Std. 607 - Commercial Building Grounding for Telecommunications Systems</font>
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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">UL Std. 497 - Protectors for Paired Conductor Communication Circuits</font>
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I really don't see any redundancy. Most grounding of communication systems is for establishing an equipotential among all points of the system and for protection against lightning. Effective bonding is needed for this.

You may also want to check out:

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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NFPA 77 - Recommended Practices for Static Electricity</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NPFA 780 - Lightning Protection Systems for Buildings</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Soares - Book on Grounding</font>
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Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

The mask or dish in your case is grounded for the obvious reason of being a lightning rod. So since the coax shield is bonded to the mask, that appears to you that the lightning charge has been removed. That is far from the truth.

Lets say your mask takes a lightning strike. The current will follow the ground conductor down to its connection point to earth. This current develops a voltage drop proportional to the impedance of the conductor. The voltage at the mask can develop up to 100 KV or higher depending on the length of the ground conductor. This voltage is imposed on the coax center conductor and shield. If left there it will be imposed on you A/V equipment and find a discharge path inside your home through your electrical wiring.

So the NEC requires it to be bonded again where it enters the house to minimize the charge. Preferable this point where it is bonded again should be at the exact same point where the AC service enters the house and use the GEC conductor bonding the service. This will put the AC service and coax ground at the same potential in the event of a lightning strike. If everything is at the same potential, no problem. However if the coax enters at a different point other than where the AC service enters and uses a different ground point, you have a voltage potential problem. This is why the NEC limits the distance of the ground conductor.

Another example noticed with SATV, CATV, and TELCO is; often their service will enter the building at a different point than the AC service. Many times they will just drive a ground rod to use for their connector blocks and not dig a trench around to the AC service ground electrode and bond the two together. This situation would create extreme voltage potential problems between the AC service and the offending utility during a lightning strike. This is a code violation and many homes have burned down, and people electrocuted from failure to comply. If this happens, CATV, SATV, or Telco can be held liable. You can bet on the insurance companies will take a look.
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

The rules for antenna masts are in NEC Art 810, with coax you also follow the rules in NEC art 820.
Don't be put off by the title of Art 810, it applies to all satellite dishes.
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

... If a television antenna was installed, but the wiring was 300 ohm twinlead wire (remember?) from the antenna to the television, then a ground block couldn't be installed on the wiring, right?

Wrong! Though a ground block obviously couldn't be used there were always "lightning arresters" for twin lead. "Antenna discharge units" were around for as long as radio existed well before TV. These were of various designs, usually a simple spark gap.

The code has not changed much in this area, it always required protection on the wiring where it enters a building- be it off air antenna, telephone and now CATV, low voltage and data. Yes, there are protectors for Cat5 so your information is wrong there too.

The reason for protectors and the method of grounding is to protect the premises (not necessarily the equipment) in the event of lightning or power cross.

You might be interested in reading these older threads on the subject:

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001065

http://www.mikeholt.com/cgi-bin/codeforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=004598

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000414#000000

http://www.mikeholt.com/cgi-bin/codeforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000377

-Hal
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

A good Structured Media bonded hub needs to be mentioned in this thread. The antenna cable coax ground return shield is bonded to the Structure Media grounded hub(if properly designed) back at the meter location. The grounding hub is jumper bonded to the GEC at that point. I believe this is still basically return ground methods used in Xmssn tower facility surge protection as far back as I can remember. Anyway...

My take on 820.40(A))(3) is that it clearly defines..."The ground conductor shall not be smaller than a minimum 14 AWG equivalent for a current carrying capacity equal to the outer conductor" of that antenna's coaxial cable shield. (include triax or other shielded cables etc.)

The NEC 820.40(A)(3)continues on to stipulate that..."The grounding conductor shall not be required to exceed 6AWG."

I interprete the 6 AWG ground jumper as an adequate size for the Str Media hub bond connection to the GEC nearby at the meter. The length requirement of the 6 AWG grounding conductor from the hub is described in 820.40(A)(4)as..."shall be as short as possible, not to exceed 6.0m (20ft) in length." Is this correct so far?

I believe the antenna shielded cable grounding return is probably misconstrued for the aforementioned 820.40(A)(3) 20' requirement.

In any case an antenna direct lightning strike will most likely toast the dish and cable, and send a transient that will follow down the coax by skin effect into the Structure media chassis grounded hub assembly. At that point, if the Media subcontractor hasn't done the grounding and TVSS [810.20(A)included] adequately...well then who pays?

rbj, Seattle

[ November 13, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

lasvegassatellite,

Sorry I got carried away. I do not believe there is a redundancy. Each coax must be bonded to the antenna and grounded at a hub/splitter structure media entry. The 'GO' conductor in the coax is not grounded, only the return shield.

The antenna mast for small satellite dishes would be bonded through the coax connections. In communication towers, a lightning rod system is always included. If the antenna assembly mast/frame is conductively isolated then a separate bond system is required.

Additional surge protection by an internal cascade line supply setup can lessen surge voltages. A first line surge arrester along with TVSS individual power strips at sensitive discrete circuit equipment may help but is not a guaranty from any direct hit.

rbj, Seattle

[ November 13, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

The 'GO' conductor in the coax is not grounded, only the return shield.

What the heck is the "GO" conductor? Don't need to reinvent the wheel, it's called the "center conductor".

Each coax must be bonded to the antenna and grounded at a hub/splitter structure media entry.

The antenna mast for small satellite dishes would be bonded through the coax connections.


Don't know where you are getting this from. The coax gets grounded within 5 feet of the point of entry. It does not have to be grounded at the antenna or dish although some antennas will automatically do that by virtue of their design, LNB's will not however. The antenna mast or dish support is required to be grounded to the service ground with at least a #10 conductor.

I also take issue with your "structured media bonded hub". Each grounding conductor should be run directly to the multi-point ground at the service entrance, not some intermediate bus that is bonded to the service grounding conductor some distance away.

I suggest that you stop reading this structured media crap.

-Hal
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

Hal,

Your comments give me an impression that you are a young contractor who has a lot of experience with some depth. Knowing what a go conductor probably dates me back a little but experience can't be picked out of a book.

A good book on RF cable might help you understand what I wrote about. Get used to structured media if you are involved with residential datacom installations.

Prior to getting into the electrical trade in 1972 I worked for a major communications company installing rack equipment, RF cable systems, antenna tower cabling and grounding interfaces and power distribution to those systems. I might be a little outdated but the same old antenna system configurations are practically identical to the simple satellite dish home kits that are popular now.

I write a lot about wiring installation because it has been my life from ships to satellites in military, energy management in light commercial, aircraft electrical and instrumentation cabling systems, and for ten years in both spec and custom residential wiring systems. Maybe we can walk in each others shoes and benefit from our journey together. Nothing is crap.

rbj, Seattle

[ November 14, 2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

Each coax must be bonded to the antenna and grounded at a hub/splitter structure media entry.
BTW, bonded does not necessarily mean grounded.

rbj, Seattle
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

Sorry RBJ if I sounded abrupt. No, I'm not a young contractor, I have been in the business since the 70's. While I've always been an EC my main focus has always been master antenna, CATV, and currently telecommunications and sound.

And no, I have never heard the term "GO" used, maybe because I don't have the communications and military background you do. I assumed it was something created by our IT crowd with the pocket protectors who always think they have a better way.

Whenever I hear "structured media" I understand a catchphrase used by manufacturers to describe products they hope to sell to people who have little knowledge of the telecommunications/datacom area. One good example that I've voiced my disdain for on several occasions is what I call "everything known to man" cable, that garden hose size abomination that contains two of everything- cat5, RG-6 quad shield, fiber, etc. If you don't have the knowledge or time to plan a proper system, just run this stuff everywhere- there's gotta be something there that will work!

Structured media, residential datacom or whatever you want to call it may be short lived anyway. Many of my customers are opting for wireless. They feel hard wiring is too much trouble and expense, has a limited life span and counter productive for use with their laptops which are increasingly replacing desk top PC's.

-Hal
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

While I'll agree with the aspect that wire-less will hold it's own in a short time, I don't think it will take over for everything as it is expensive and there are only so many frequency's that can be used to prevent interference with a neighbors system. I think most fixed in-place media centers will still use some sort of hard wiring or fiber-optics. While portable devices will use wire-less.
Go conductor? Signal conductor maybe. Well that's a new one on me and I have been in the business since "76" And communication was one of my majors in school. Of course that was a few years ago.
As far as the tandem, or quadplex cables go there too expensive and not every supply house has them. I still use single conductors and do mutible runs by pulling off multible reals or box's.
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

Hal,
It's a pleasure. Come to think of it, 'go' is somewhat Cro-Magnon pre-70's. There is room for my improvement in using present day dialog in this forum. Sticking to 60 hertz should be safe for a while.

I agree with wireless making inroads. I don't know how well the co-existence with 2 x 2 system interfaces works out. Telcom's still offer new construction pre-wire packages for their on-going business survival.

As Wayne mentions, there is a level of practical economics appealing to the mass public. I can see where wireless would be a co-existent resolution for the DSS industry. I wish you well.

rbj, Seattle
 
Re: Original intent: TV Antenna Mast Ground

I realize now that it isn't redundant to require a separate ground conductor for the mast instead of just using the coax ground. I have become aware of situations where the satellite system could pose a threat if the NEC were revised to exempt ground conductors directly from the dish. The main scenario would come from the dependence on the signal wire ground block to protect the mast and the potential for the whole system to be unprotected if the ground block had its ground conductor disconnected. Here's how that could happen:

Every day around here, we'll do a satellite install and then later, a CATV installer will come along after we have left to install some product like cablemodem service. Every time, they take the ground wire from off my coax ground block and switch it to their CATV ground block. I am not too concerned about that as I take pictures of the dish and ground blocks.

However, if the ground wire from the ground block were taken by the cable installer, the whole system would be unprotected. It seems to me by requiring a separate ground wire from the mast, direct to the ground rod, would still offer protection from lightning, whereas removing that section of code would allow that lack of protection to persist when the signal wire's ground was removed.

I am aware of CATV and TELCO coming in on the opposite side of the house. Quite scary considering how often that occurs. I've always known about "ground skew" and how the difference in potential could cause a dangerous situation. I have seen it once when a musician stepped up to the microphone while wearing a guitar. The mic and guitar were plugged into outlets on opposite sides of the stage. I have always made it a point to run my coax from the dish over to the power entry. I know I can run my coax as far as I want, but the coax ground only 20 feet. So, sometimes I have had to "take the scenic route" when running my coax wires when the TV was closer than the power meter. I do that because I'll never pound an 8 ft rod into Southern Nevada caliche just to do a satellite install. I'll bring that coax close enough every time.
 
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