Other grounding electrodes needed when ufer exists.

[Crash117]

I replaced a panel a couple weeks ago and now at inspection the inspector is requiring 2 new ground rods even though there is an existing ufer that I was able to locate the rebar bond in the crawl space. I had pictures and showed him but he said not good enough??? Can I give him a code reference to try and go without ground rods. There’s about 3 feet of dirt then solid rock. Last resort dig horizontal trench and bury ground rods that way. TIA

 

[infinity]

A CEE is not required to be supplemented with any other electrodes. If only the CEE is present then no other electrodes (like ground rods) are required. Ask for a code reference from the inspector because unless there is a local amendment the inspector is wrong.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I replaced a panel a couple weeks ago and now at inspection the inspector is requiring 2 new ground rods even though there is an existing ufer that I was able to locate the rebar bond in the crawl space. I had pictures and showed him but he said not good enough??? Can I give him a code reference to try and go without ground rods. There’s about 3 feet of dirt then solid rock. Last resort dig horizontal trench and bury ground rods that way. TIA

Maybe try NEC 250.52

 

[augie47]

If you don't already know the answer you might check with your POCO. Ours require a ground rod even if not required by NEC.

 

[Crash117]

If you don't already know the answer you might check with your POCO. Ours require a ground rod even if not required by NEC.

Poco does not care either way. It’s all on the city inspectors who I think are just trying to get grounding the only way they know how. I know I’m good with a CEE but dealing with uniformed inspectors can be difficult. There are no local amendments to require additional. All new homes in this area use CEE

 

[jaggedben]

Ask him to cite a code reference. Or take it to his superior. Is this guy new?

Look at 250.50. Key phrase is "where [no] electrodes exist, one or more [ring, rod, pipe, listed, or plate] electrodes shall be installed." But the CEE *does* exist. Or is that what he's not accepting?

 

[Crash117]

Ask him to cite a code reference. Or take it to his superior. Is this guy new?

Look at 250.50. Key phrase is "where [no] electrodes exist, one or more [ring, rod, pipe, listed, or plate] electrodes shall be installed." But the CEE *does* exist. Or is that what he's not accepting?

I have crawled under the house and found the connection point to the rebar and taken pictures. He said since he can’t (won’t crawl under) see it, technically it doesn’t exist. I’m planning to go over his head to head inspector.

 

[tthh]

Ground rods in Nevada are probably mostly useless anyway. There is very little moisture in the soil. That's the whole origin of the Ufer.

 

[Crash117]

Ground rods in Nevada are probably mostly useless anyway. There is very little moisture in the soil. That's the whole origin of the Ufer.

Exactly.

 

[infinity]

I have crawled under the house and found the connection point to the rebar and taken pictures. He said since he can’t (won’t crawl under) see it, technically it doesn’t exist. I’m planning to go over his head to head inspector.

That not your problem. Definitely go over his head. His stance is indefensible.

 

[texie]

Ground rods in Nevada are probably mostly useless anyway. There is very little moisture in the soil. That's the whole origin of the Ufer.

Kind of ironic the Mr Ufer developed the CEE right next door in Arizona due to the very dry soil there for this very reason. Similar dry soil conditions in Nevada.

 

[augie47]

v

I have crawled under the house and found the connection point to the rebar and taken pictures. He said since he can’t (won’t crawl under) see it, technically it doesn’t exist. I’m planning to go over his head to head inspector.

Have him touch a phase conductor.... tell him there's no current there since he can't see the electricity, same premise

 

[texie]

I agree the inspector is clearly wrong and needs some training. And as others indicated, ground rods in Nevada are probaly mostly worthles.

 

[letgomywago]

If you decide to do a second electrode plate electrodes work well if you hit rock since they don't need to be as deep as a rod. They are pricey though

 

[Fred B]

I have crawled under the house and found the connection point to the rebar and taken pictures. He said since he can’t (won’t crawl under) see it, technically it doesn’t exist. I’m planning to go over his head to head inspector.

Have you had deallings with this inspector in the past? I've had issues with guys in the past and I wouldn't accept a picture but would a live stream, because of issues with prior installtion by them. But others experience with them I would accept a picture.
This was an existing installation with an ufer that was already being used? Shouldn't be an issue to reconnect. Offer to stream live the crawl to the ufer. If his objection is the ufer and trying to get 2 rod option he is just wrong. If not willing to consider optio, what others said go over head.
New construction that never had grounding inspection prior to concrete pour I could understand inspector not accepting even the prescence of an ufer.

 

[Fred B]

Inspector might be misinterperating 250.50 Exception related to existing structure.
That only indicated you don't have to create an ufer connection where one wasn't present, not that you can't reuse one that is present.