larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
is a #8 bonding wire required from the disconect to the hot-tub?
out side hot-tub bonding?
- Thread starter larryl
- Start date
- Status
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
Normally when you are bonding in a hot tub you are having an o...........:grin:
but seriously #8 is the minumum size..
680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
The equipotential bonding requirements of 680.26, located in Part II of Article 680, are amended by 680.42(B) only for tubs with metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves and for metal-to-metal mounting on a common base. All the other bonding requirements in 680.26 apply to outdoor spas and hot tubs, including the packaged and self-contained types.
(A) Flexible Connections. Listed packaged spa or hot tub equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).
(1) Flexible Conduit. Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft).
The use of liquidtight flexible metal or nonmetallic conduit in a length not to exceed 6 ft is permitted by 680.42(A)(1) as a wiring method to supply control panels or panelboards installed by the manufacturer in packaged or self-contained spas and hot tubs. This provision modifies the requirement of 680.25(A) covering the wiring methods permitted for feeder conductors supplying swimming pool equipment.
(2) Cord-and-Plug Connections. Cord-and-plug connections with a cord not longer than 4.6 m (15 ft) shall be permitted where protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(B) Bonding. Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base shall be permitted. The metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves shall not be required to be bonded as required in 680.26.
(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
(B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded parts shall be made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
edited to add..I really like this new software..I just got my 2008 handbook on CD..
but seriously #8 is the minumum size..
680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
The equipotential bonding requirements of 680.26, located in Part II of Article 680, are amended by 680.42(B) only for tubs with metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves and for metal-to-metal mounting on a common base. All the other bonding requirements in 680.26 apply to outdoor spas and hot tubs, including the packaged and self-contained types.
(A) Flexible Connections. Listed packaged spa or hot tub equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).
(1) Flexible Conduit. Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft).
The use of liquidtight flexible metal or nonmetallic conduit in a length not to exceed 6 ft is permitted by 680.42(A)(1) as a wiring method to supply control panels or panelboards installed by the manufacturer in packaged or self-contained spas and hot tubs. This provision modifies the requirement of 680.25(A) covering the wiring methods permitted for feeder conductors supplying swimming pool equipment.
(2) Cord-and-Plug Connections. Cord-and-plug connections with a cord not longer than 4.6 m (15 ft) shall be permitted where protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(B) Bonding. Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base shall be permitted. The metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves shall not be required to be bonded as required in 680.26.
(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
(B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded parts shall be made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
edited to add..I really like this new software..I just got my 2008 handbook on CD..
M. D.
Senior Member
This is a good article ,..just click and it is yours to read
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_11/
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_11/
- Location
- Logan, Utah
larryl said:
Are you talking about the equipotential bonding or the EGC for the circuit to the hot tub?
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
larryl said:
A #8 is not required from the disco to the Tub. I don't believe that there are too many hot tubs that need a #8 EGC so I assume you mean the bonding to the grid.
larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
the equipotential bond,,is a # 8 solid required??raider1 said:
larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
Dennis Alwon said:
yes, the bonding to the grid,
the EGC is a #10
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
larryl said:
The #8 just needs to land on the pump motor. But take heed to what MPD said about checking the specs. I have had a tub manufacturer require a full size EGC even tho the NEC does not.
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
you know we really don't know about this install..most outdoor hot tubs are installed in things like wooden gazebos that are screened in..how do you bond a gazebo..SO before we can say whether this needs to be back to the disconnect we need to know how Hot tub is installed..I would still bond the disconnect and I use a number 8 for the whole thing..if you bond the tub to the grid with number eight but the grid is isolated and the ground carried back via #10 what good is the #8..I am confused with the logic of the down size..hot tub could be connected to house by a complete slab and grid and the grid is bonded on both ends with #8..I don't know so can you paint us a little picture of the install..
larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
ya,sure,,
i've got a outside disconect,w/ a 20amp double pole gfi in it,,,=motor
and it also has a 30amp double pole gfi in it,,=heater
feed the disconect w/ 6-3rx,,mounted on the house
came off the disconect w/ 1" pvc,over to the tub,then to k-flex,,
ran 2-#10s=heater
ran2-#12s=motor
ran1-#10 green for the egc
hottub mounted on a concrete slab about 15 feet from the house,,
nothing else around it but a wood deck,
,,do i have to run a #8 bare c.u.,from the disconect to the tub,,to "bond" the
two of them together?
its been a couple years since i've done one,and i'm pretty sure i've done it
in the past,,
i vegly remember bonding a down spout,althougt that could of been a
*workmare
*workmare is a word i just made up,,it's when you dream your working all nite,,
thanks guys,,,,,,,
i've got a outside disconect,w/ a 20amp double pole gfi in it,,,=motor
and it also has a 30amp double pole gfi in it,,=heater
feed the disconect w/ 6-3rx,,mounted on the house
came off the disconect w/ 1" pvc,over to the tub,then to k-flex,,
ran 2-#10s=heater
ran2-#12s=motor
ran1-#10 green for the egc
hottub mounted on a concrete slab about 15 feet from the house,,
nothing else around it but a wood deck,
,,do i have to run a #8 bare c.u.,from the disconect to the tub,,to "bond" the
two of them together?
its been a couple years since i've done one,and i'm pretty sure i've done it
in the past,,
i vegly remember bonding a down spout,althougt that could of been a
*workmare
*workmare is a word i just made up,,it's when you dream your working all nite,,
thanks guys,,,,,,,
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
larryl said:
LMAO thats what it is, a work-mare..
I would use a number eight strnd or solid (not bare) to bond the Tub to disconnect and the #8 bare cooper to bond tub and concrete slab..I would question whether the slab needed to be bonded if deck covered entire slab..
edited: Yet as far as I can tell the #10 bond from the disconnect to tub is legal..The only spot #8 is required is from tub to concrete slab or as NEC calls it the equipotential plane..
Last edited:
- Status