Outdoor EMT, THHN vs Romex, Distance above grade

[joeyjoey]

Hello all, I'm new to the forums and new to home ownership - trying to
hire an electrician to run power to a jacuzzi and possibly a jacuzzi
heater (each requiring a dedicated circuit). The home was handed over
to us with the tub inoperable and apparently rigged for inspection, but
that doesn't really matter anymore.

I've already had electricians visit, and have been told different things
regarding what's possible and what's allowed, with each contradicting
the other, hence I'm here.

The facts:
-We need at least one 15-amp line for the jacuzzi motor (though a #12 20-amp line may be smarter to be "future-proof"?)
-We may opt for a 2nd 15-amp (or 20-amp) line for a heater for the tub, though a heater is not yet installed.
-With our finished basement and the tub being two floors above there is
no good in-wall route - at least part of the run must be in outdoor
conduit

One electrician proposed running EMT conduit down from the outdoor
breaker box, along the foundation about 4" above ground (a concrete
patio) before heading up the exterior wall and entering the home below
the tub (there's an overhang where the tub is).

The next electrician proposed running EMT conduit up from the box,
running it under our deck the opposite direction, heading up a corner of
the home beside a gutter, then penetrating into the attic and going the
full length of the house to the master bath where the tub is located.

Each says what the other proposes is not not allowed.

One said that the run along the foundation is not permitted. He said it
must be at least 12" above the ground (rain/snow) when I asked about
this possibility.

They also disagreed about the type of wire that must be used. When I
mentioned possibly running two 15-amp (or 20-amp) lines in the same
conduit one told me that we would have to switch to Romex instead of
THHN. The other said we'd use THHN the whole way and Romex is not
allowed (for both outdoor use and/or inconduit, so a double-whammy
there).

So what are the correct answers?
1) Are two THHN circuits allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?
2) Are two Romex circiuts allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?
3) OR, is neither correct and a different type of wire required?
4) Can an EMT conduit not be run a few inches above ground on the exterior of a home?

I'm just assuming EMT is acceptable for this outdoor use. I actually
had a 3rd electrician out but he proposed using an existing 20-amp line
in the basement ceiling, somehow fishing or going through 20ft of floor
joists to the outside wall, penetrating and running IMC on the exterior
straight up to the bathroom and penetrating back in. His quote was
about 250% more expensive than the others...

Thanks so much everyone for any answers.

 

[ActionDave]

Since you are not trying to do the work yourself I guess it is okay to answer.

Hello all, I'm new to the forums and new to home ownership - trying to
hire an electrician to run power to a jacuzzi and possibly a jacuzzi
heater (each requiring a dedicated circuit). The home was handed over
to us with the tub inoperable and apparently rigged for inspection, but
that doesn't really matter anymore.

I've already had electricians visit, and have been told different things
regarding what's possible and what's allowed, with each contradicting
the other, hence I'm here.

The facts:
-We need at least one 15-amp line for the jacuzzi motor (though a #12 20-amp line may be smarter to be "future-proof"?)
-We may opt for a 2nd 15-amp (or 20-amp) line for a heater for the tub, though a heater is not yet installed.
-With our finished basement and the tub being two floors above there is
no good in-wall route - at least part of the run must be in outdoor
conduit

One electrician proposed running EMT conduit down from the outdoor
breaker box, along the foundation about 4" above ground (a concrete
patio) before heading up the exterior wall and entering the home below
the tub (there's an overhang where the tub is).

That is probably what I would do.

The next electrician proposed running EMT conduit up from the box,
running it under our deck the opposite direction, heading up a corner of
the home beside a gutter, then penetrating into the attic and going the
full length of the house to the master bath where the tub is located.

Sounds like a lot of extra work, but would get the job done.

Each says what the other proposes is not not allowed.

Either would work.

One said that the run along the foundation is not permitted. He said it
must be at least 12" above the ground (rain/snow) when I asked about
this possibility.

Wrong. Not true at least as far as the NEC is concerned. May be a local amendment.

They also disagreed about the type of wire that must be used. When I
mentioned possibly running two 15-amp (or 20-amp) lines in the same
conduit one told me that we would have to switch to Romex instead of
THHN. The other said we'd use THHN the whole way and Romex is not
allowed (for both outdoor use and/or inconduit, so a double-whammy
there).

You can not run Romex in conduit outdoors. You can run it conduit indoors but there is no reason to unless you are trying to protect it from damage.

So what are the correct answers?
1) Are two THHN circuits allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?

Yes.

2) Are two Romex circiuts allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?

Short answer is no.

3) OR, is neither correct and a different type of wire required?

If you want to go super cheap UF is an option but I would not do it.

4) Can an EMT conduit not be run a few inches above ground on the exterior of a home?

I would do it without hesitation.

I'm just assuming EMT is acceptable for this outdoor use. I actually
had a 3rd electrician out but he proposed using an existing 20-amp line
in the basement ceiling, somehow fishing or going through 20ft of floor
joists to the outside wall, penetrating and running IMC on the exterior
straight up to the bathroom and penetrating back in. His quote was
about 250% more expensive than the others...

Thanks so much everyone for any answers.

That sounds like overkill.

 

[infinity]

So what are the correct answers?
1) Are two THHN circuits allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?
2) Are two Romex circiuts allowed within the same 1/2" EMT conduit?
3) OR, is neither correct and a different type of wire required?
4) Can an EMT conduit not be run a few inches above ground on the exterior of a home?

1-Yes and no, two circuits can be in the same raceway and no if installed outdoors it must be THWN or some other wet location rated conductor.
2-No and yes, no because 1/2" EMT is too small and NM cable cannot be installed in a wet location which the inside of the conduit is when run outdoors, but yes NM cable can be run in EMT when the raceway is sized properly and in a dry location.
4- As Dave stated EMT can be run above grade there is no requirement for it to be 12" according to the NEC.

 

[kwired]

One electrician proposed running EMT conduit down from the outdoor
breaker box, along the foundation about 4" above ground (a concrete
patio) before heading up the exterior wall and entering the home below
the tub (there's an overhang where the tub is).

The bad thing about this idea is that it leaves a low spot similar to a "P-trap" in plumbing drains where water will collect (you will get condensation in this raceway) and it will then either rust out over time or even freeze and break open in cold weather. Unless it is installed in a manner that provides a way to drain that moisture that will accumulate in it. Junction box, conduit body placed in the low portion of the run with a "weep hole" drilled in it works great.

The last guy with the higher price is going to less "uglify" the exterior of your home - which may be worth some consideration. I don't care how neat of an install the others may do, having little or nothing at all on the exterior is still a cleaner look.