Outdoor hot tub wiring

[sparky62]

Hi Guys,
i would like to know is it permissable to run 6/3 rx for a spa sub panel indoors up to exiting the building ,then convert to pvc with thhn, thw conductors to the hot tub. the sub panel is supplied from the tub company.I know i can`t run the 6/3 to the tub.Thanks

 

[barbeer]

680.25(A) prohibits that wiring method.

 

[JES2727]

Doesn't 680.42(C) permit it?

 

[M. D.]

NEC 680.42(C) ?In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the
interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods
recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is
insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be
permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-
contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly......?

The so called sub panel is part of the self contained hot tub ,..so depending where this hot tub is NM-b could be used.

 

[barbeer]

I realize what 680.42(C) states.........in 680.42 it only excepts (A) and (B)!? do we have a failure to communicate here? Not in the NEC!:smile:

 

[JES2727]

If the hot tub is outdoors the portion of the wiring that is indoors can be in romex, provided he changes over to an approved method once he exits the building. I think that's what the book says, and I think that's what the OP is describing. Except he didn't mention if it is a one-family dwelling.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, 680.42(C) is very clear that chapter 3 wiring methods are okay inside the dwelling. There are 2 things you must be careful about: 1) the 60C rating of nm cable and 2) many tubs require a full size egc per the manufacturers specs. You cannot do that with nm. If I can pipe it all the way that is what I do.

 

[resistance]

IMO, 680.42(C) is very clear that chapter 3 wiring methods are okay inside the dwelling. There are 2 things you must be careful about: 1) the 60C rating of nm cable and 2) many tubs require a full size egc per the manufacturers specs. You cannot do that with nm. If I can pipe it all the way that is what I do.

Assuming you have an exterior hot tub disconnect before the hot tub: Using NM cable--with a #10 EGC--from a service or non-service rated panel to the hot tub disconnect should be fine. From the hot tub disconnect to the hot tub junction will require an EGC sized per manufactures instructions--most likely a #8.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well here is some info on a Hot Springs tub

230 VOLT PERMANENTLY CONNECTED MODELS
?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Vista8 (Model SS)? Grandee8 (Model GG) ? Envoy8 (Model KK)
?Vanguard~ (Model VV) ? Sovereign~ (Model II) ? Aria ? (Model AR)
HOT SPRING SPAS MUST BE WIRED IN ACCORDANCE WITH All APPLICABLE LOCAL ELECTRICAL CODES. All ELECTRICAL WORK SHOULD BE DONE BY AN EXPERIENCED, LICENSED ELECTRICIAN. WE RECOMMEND THE USE OF APPROPRIATE ELECTRICAL CONDUIT, FITTINGS, AND WIRE FOR ALL CIRCUITS.
An electrical sub panel containing two GFCI breakers is included with each 230 volt spa. We recommend that this subpanel be used to supply power and protect the spa.
This subpanel requires a 50 amp, single phase, 230 volt, four wire service (two line, one neutral, one ground). The grounding conductor must be at least the same gauge as the line conductors, but not less than #10 AWG. A minimum #10 AWG solid copper bond wire is also required.
Mount the subpanel in the vicinity of the spa, but not closer than five feet away, in accordance with all local codes. (N.E.C. 680-38 to 41-A-3)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You decide based on the above post. Not sure I would play games with it but I do believe it is a schemem to cover their butts.

 

[M. D.]

well seeing how the use of it is a recommendation ,...I recommend not using it .

 

[M. D.]

I can't find my last post so this is a test ,.. well there it is ,.. not sure what happened ,.. but there it is:smile:

 

[ArcNSpark]

I once was failed for wiring an above-ground pool with UF from a PVC box on the side of the house. I sleeved the UF in PVC where it penetrated the ground, and GFCI-protected it and everything, but I was failed for something in 680 that mandated that the grounding conductor be insulated.

My argument was that the ground wire WAS in fact insulated because it was inside the UF insulation, but he held firm. I fixed it.

Funny thing was that I had been trained to do pools/spas that way from my boss and had never been failed on it...but nevertheless, it does say in 680 that the ground wire be insulated.

For whatever that's worth.

 

[LarryFine]

My argument was that the ground wire WAS in fact insulated because it was inside the UF insulation, but he held firm. I fixed it.

He was right, for whatever that's worth.