Outlet box ground wire question

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ACusimano

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Hello all

Just a quickie. Had an inspector force me to crimp all of my ground conductors in a 2 gang box, outlet box consisted of 2 seperate circuits. One 15 amp lighting circuit and a 20 amp bath GFCI circuit. All circuit wires were spliced and crimped seperately including their respective grounds. I have never been forced to do this, is he correct in making this request?

Forget to mention that the outlet box in question was plastic, not metal

Thanks
Tony Cusimano
 
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I dont believe 250.148 could be used to require this. It contains this phrase, "any equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors". It does no harm to do so but I dont see how it could be required.
 
electricman2 said:
I dont believe 250.148 could be used to require this. It contains this phrase, "any equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors". It does no harm to do so but I dont see how it could be required.
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I've argued that same point here before but there are many who feel that all of the EGC's are required to be spliced together.
 
ACusimano said:
. . . is he correct in making this request?
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I agree with your inspector. 2005 NEC 250.148 is the reference.

I have liked imagining the branch circuit hots and neutrals as radiating from a central trunk like tree branches, while the EGC (equipment grounding conductors) form a web, or net, being connected together at every enclosure they share with another EGC. The "web" of EGCs results in lowering the impedance for fault currents, while lowering the possibility of discontinuity of the fault path.
 
infinity said:
I've argued that same point here before but there are many who feel that all of the EGC's are required to be spliced together.
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Would 250.148(C) pretty much make it a given anyway?
 
al hildenbrand said:
I agree with your inspector. 2005 NEC 250.148 is the reference.

I have liked imagining the branch circuit hots and neutrals as radiating from a central trunk like tree branches, while the EGC (equipment grounding conductors) form a web, or net, being connected together at every enclosure they share with another EGC. The "web" of EGCs results in lowering the impedance for fault currents, while lowering the possibility of discontinuity of the fault path.
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Al, why does it say associated with? why not, all grounding conductors within a box must be spliced together? I must disagree with you.

With metal boxes its a moot point anyway... but I do like to know the correct answer :)
 
stickboy1375 said:
Al, why does it say associated with?
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Yes it says associated with.

It says grounding conductors associated with those conductors which are spliced or terminated in the box.

It doesn't say conductors associated with a particular circuit.

why not, all grounding conductors within a box must be spliced together?
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Because in a pipe job some conductors might be just passing by unbroken.
 
iwire said:
Yes it says associated with.

It says grounding conductors associated with those conductors which are spliced or terminated in the box.

It doesn't say conductors associated with a particular circuit.



Because in a pipe job some conductors might be just passing by unbroken.
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I dont get something, if I have two dead end three ways in a 2 gang box, on two different circuits, how are the grounds associated with the other circuit conductors?

I think I misread your post, so are you agreeing with what the OP did or against it?
 
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They are associated because they are terminated or spliced in the box.

Try this. :smile:


Grab in you hand every circuit conductor that will be spliced or terminated in the box, now out of that group your holding in your hand find all the grounding conductors associated with them and splice them together. :cool:
 
iwire said:
They are associated because they are terminated or spliced in the box.

Try this. :smile:


Grab in you hand every circuit conductor that will be spliced or terminated in the box, now out of that group your holding in your hand find all the grounding conductors associated with them and splice them together. :cool:
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Thats what I thought... thanks...
 
just a thought

just a thought

I Think what the inspector was trying to do was make sure all the grounds where at the same potential.

just my guess i might be wrong
 
IMSO 250.148 is there to ensure continuity of the grounding conductor (and attachment to metal boxes) and splicing egc's of different circuits has nothing to do with continuity. I think the inspector was wrong. IMSO
 
wirebender said:
IMSO 250.148 is there to ensure continuity of the grounding conductor (and attachment to metal boxes)
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I agree.

and splicing egc's of different circuits has nothing to do with continuity.
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I agree.

But that has nothing to do with what the words in the section say.

Read it using Charlie's rules.
 
I read it like Stick does. I think only the EGC's associated with the same circuit need be spliced. If that was not the intent, why say circuit conductors? Why not just conductors?
 
wirebender said:
. . . why say circuit conductors? Why not just conductors?
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2005 NEC 250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes

Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).
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"Circuit conductors" is a single term comprised of two words. The term is not defined in Article 100, however, it is used 259 times in the body of the 2005 NEC.

Consider:
2005 NEC Article 100 Definitions.

Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).
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Now, "circuit conductors" is plural, meaning more than one. How many more than one? There is no limit.

There is no limit.

To say the term means "conductors of a circuit", only, limits the conductors.
 
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