outlet height

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I agree with the above posters, typically specifications are x amount of inches to the center line of the box, above finished floor (AFF). Finished floor includes things like concrete pours, carpet padding, carpet, tile, etcetera.

I have done some hotels were there is maybe a 6 inch gap in the wall above the desk backsplash to the bottom of the picture frame or mirror above it.
The data boxes that were supposed to go in that area have to be mounted at a pretty precise location.

Kitchens can also have very small ranges of acceptable receptacle height... Too low, and it's in the backsplash, too high, and it's in the cabinet.

If in doubt at all, get an RFI.
 
Here in CA we have different ADA requirements than the feds, so you might want to check, but in commercial / Industrial receptacle height is minimum 15" AFF measured to the bottom of the box and switches are maximum 48" AFF measured to the top of the box.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Here in CA we have different ADA requirements than the feds, so you might want to check, but in commercial / Industrial receptacle height is minimum 15" AFF measured to the bottom of the box and switches are maximum 48" AFF measured to the top of the box.
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Those things you mentioned are specifying something other then center of box. With no additional specification any height on a plan is generally considered to mean the center of the item in question.
 
kwired said:
Those things you mentioned are specifying something other then center of box. With no additional specification any height on a plan is generally considered to mean the center of the item in question.
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I understand and the reason they changed it, was because the ADA used to say to the center of the operating handle, so if you put your switch box at 48" to center and then put in a stacked switch you were a 1/2" too high, or if you had a top control thermostat you would be too high also, so they just changed it to top and bottom of box and then what you install doesn't matter.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I understand and the reason they changed it, was because the ADA used to say to the center of the operating handle, so if you put your switch box at 48" to center and then put in a stacked switch you were a 1/2" too high, or if you had a top control thermostat you would be too high also, so they just changed it to top and bottom of box and then what you install doesn't matter.
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OK but as was mentioned if a plan doesn't state top or bottom - general rule is that it means center.

Now if ADA will require it to be top or bottom and whoever made the plan didn't specify - then the plan is what is wrong by not stating so. because with no other indication it means center.
 
I would call and ask but normally I would install those heights to the bottom of the box. I install receptacles at 13", switches at 43" -- that is to the bottom.
 
kwired said:
OK but as was mentioned if a plan doesn't state top or bottom - general rule is that it means center.

Now if ADA will require it to be top or bottom and whoever made the plan didn't specify - then the plan is what is wrong by not stating so. because with no other indication it means center.
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The plans are wrong 90% of the time, because too many engineers use cut and paste and don't ever change their plans. When you have to raise a 100 or so outlets, because you did not check to see if they were right or not, you'll wish you had asked first.
 
cowboyjwc said:
The plans are wrong 90% of the time, because too many engineers use cut and paste and don't ever change their plans. When you have to raise a 100 or so outlets, because you did not check to see if they were right or not, you'll wish you had asked first.
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Then it should fail plans review, right?

If there is no plans review then yes it is mostly the installer that is responsible.
 
cowboyjwc said:
The plans are wrong 90% of the time, because too many engineers use cut and paste and don't ever change their plans. When you have to raise a 100 or so outlets, because you did not check to see if they were right or not, you'll wish you had asked first.
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I have had to rebox entire buildings more than one time because of box height errors. Only slightly less fun is changing around mud rings because the wall detail was missed or changed.

One of the first jobs I worked on, the cabinet guys set their cabinets on top of carpet and tile that should not have been there. Rather than rip all of the glued in Granite backsplashes out and what not, the electrician had to move his receptacles up to clear the backsplashes. Sometimes even when you're right, you are wrong
 
JFletcher said:
I have had to rebox entire buildings more than one time because of box height errors. Only slightly less fun is changing around mud rings because the wall detail was missed or changed.

One of the first jobs I worked on, the cabinet guys set their cabinets on top of carpet and tile that should not have been there. Rather than rip all of the glued in Granite backsplashes out and what not, the electrician had to move his receptacles up to clear the backsplashes. Sometimes even when you're right, you are wrong
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Sounds like you, or your boss, didn't give high enough price to move them compared to what cabinet/counter guys gave for a price. Or your firm only slightly underpriced them and possibly made a killing on the change.
 
cowboyjwc said:
The plans are wrong 90% of the time, because too many engineers use cut and paste and don't ever change their plans. When you have to raise a 100 or so outlets, because you did not check to see if they were right or not, you'll wish you had asked first.
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I agree with John on this one. Never blindly follow prints, if you see anything that doesn't seem right then you should question it.

Most electricians should know what the ADA requirements are for their areas from doing other jobs. So you will know there is a good chance the plans are wrong.
 
kwired said:
Sounds like you, or your boss, didn't give high enough price to move them compared to what cabinet/counter guys gave for a price. Or your firm only slightly underpriced them and possibly made a killing on the change.
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The job with the backsplashes, we were doing the low voltage on that job... We didn't have to change anything. Other jobs were we had to change all of our boxes in a building, my illustrious former boss was responsible for the initial screw up. I believe reboxing an entire building was more aggravating than not getting paid on time
 
JFletcher said:
I agree with the above posters, typically specifications are x amount of inches to the center line of the box, above finished floor (AFF). Finished floor includes things like concrete pours, carpet padding, carpet, tile, etcetera.

I have done some hotels were there is maybe a 6 inch gap in the wall above the desk backsplash to the bottom of the picture frame or mirror above it.
The data boxes that were supposed to go in that area have to be mounted at a pretty precise location.

Kitchens can also have very small ranges of acceptable receptacle height... Too low, and it's in the backsplash, too high, and it's in the cabinet.

If in doubt at all, get an RFI.
Click to expand...

Which also adds one other layer of minute attention to detail, because usually counter with millwork are built from the unfinished floor so be careful.
 
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