Outlet?
- Thread starter bennie
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Outlet?
No. At a panel, you may take current to supply outlets further downstream, but no ?utilization equipment? is located within the panel itself.
No. At a panel, you may take current to supply outlets further downstream, but no ?utilization equipment? is located within the panel itself.
jmc
Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Outlet?
Bennie, good question, time for u to submit a proposal and make it clear.
John
Bennie, good question, time for u to submit a proposal and make it clear.
John
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Outlet?
But....What if I mount a light fixture or a cooling fan directly onto the panel? I feed the two directly from a OCD within the panel. I think this installation deems the panel an outlet.
Now, the real question: If the panel is installed in a bedroom, does the entire panel need to be AFCI protected?
But....What if I mount a light fixture or a cooling fan directly onto the panel? I feed the two directly from a OCD within the panel. I think this installation deems the panel an outlet.
Now, the real question: If the panel is installed in a bedroom, does the entire panel need to be AFCI protected?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Outlet?
Bennie,
Don
Bennie,
The feed to a panel that has OCPD devices in it can't be a branch circuit. All circuits on the line side of the final code required OCPD are feeders. The branch circuit originates at the load side of the last required OCPD.
Don
Re: Outlet?
If you run conductors to a motor starter that has fuses in it, is it a feeder or a branch circuit?
If the fuses are for protection of the starter componets are they still the final OCPD's?
Anyways, Bryan, all joking aside you bring up a good point about having a panel in a bedroom.
With all the concern of the total circuit being AFCI protected in bedrooms, we could still have a much greater potential parallel or series arching hazard legally installed in a bedroom.
I have always wondered about a bedroom that would share a kitchen wall with range, dishwasher, compactor, disposal, small appliances, microwave,etc... yet be concerned with an outlet or two in the bedroom itself.
Roger
If you run conductors to a motor starter that has fuses in it, is it a feeder or a branch circuit?
If the fuses are for protection of the starter componets are they still the final OCPD's?
Anyways, Bryan, all joking aside you bring up a good point about having a panel in a bedroom.
With all the concern of the total circuit being AFCI protected in bedrooms, we could still have a much greater potential parallel or series arching hazard legally installed in a bedroom.
I have always wondered about a bedroom that would share a kitchen wall with range, dishwasher, compactor, disposal, small appliances, microwave,etc... yet be concerned with an outlet or two in the bedroom itself.
Roger
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Outlet?
Bennie
Starting in 1993 " Utiization Equipment: Equipment that.... purposes".
A panel does not meet this definition.
Mike P.
Bennie
Starting in 1993 " Utiization Equipment: Equipment that.... purposes".
A panel does not meet this definition.
Mike P.
Re: Outlet?
A case can be made that the utilization equipment takes current from the panel.
To put it another way...The panel supplies current to the utilization equipment.
I can't see any way the panel does not meet the definition of an outlet.
My point in this... to call attention to the fact that a detached building panel is required to have a ground electrode. The same building, with any framing attached to main building, does not require a ground electrode.
A case can be made that the utilization equipment takes current from the panel.
To put it another way...The panel supplies current to the utilization equipment.
I can't see any way the panel does not meet the definition of an outlet.
My point in this... to call attention to the fact that a detached building panel is required to have a ground electrode. The same building, with any framing attached to main building, does not require a ground electrode.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Outlet?
Bennie
"a point" Would the generation station be a "point"? Is a plug a point? Is a switch a point?
What is the point???
Bennie
"a point" Would the generation station be a "point"? Is a plug a point? Is a switch a point?
What is the point???
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Outlet?
I think I see where you are coming from as I wondered why the NEC requires a GE at a detatch building.
If we go back to Light standerds and Mike holts look at installing a ground rod there, he feels that the EGC is all that is needed.
So why do we need a GE here if there is an EGC ran to the main panel that will do the same thing???
I think I see where you are coming from as I wondered why the NEC requires a GE at a detatch building.
If we go back to Light standerds and Mike holts look at installing a ground rod there, he feels that the EGC is all that is needed.
So why do we need a GE here if there is an EGC ran to the main panel that will do the same thing???
Re: Outlet?
I have done a bit more research, on this issue.
I now understand why a ground electrode is a good idea at the separate building. The same reason a ground rod should be driven at a light pole base.
The equipment ground conductor and the earth will be in parallel. This will reduce the impedance in the ground fault path.
[ May 09, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: bennie ]
I have done a bit more research, on this issue.
I now understand why a ground electrode is a good idea at the separate building. The same reason a ground rod should be driven at a light pole base.
The equipment ground conductor and the earth will be in parallel. This will reduce the impedance in the ground fault path.
[ May 09, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: bennie ]
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