Outside Propane Tank

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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I just failed an inspection on a propane tank I wired. The inspector cited 514.11 and 514.16. I was a little surprised as I wired it the exact same way as another one I did a year ago that he also inspected and passed.:-? I guess I was wrong then too...

I installed an emer. stop switch about 8' away from the tank that breaks both the hot-neutral of the circuit. He is saying that it needs to happen back at the panel? Unfortunately, this is on a MWBC. Do I need to split these circuits up and get a dedicated GFI breaker(it breaks the neutral too right?) for this propane pump? I'm tempted to repull the circuit, rewire the pump for 240v and use a 2p breaker.

The second part, 514.16, he's telling me needs to have all the emt conn.(both ends of the raceway in every j-box it passes through) bonded with either a bonding locknut or grd. bushing all the way back to the panel. I thought bonding a raceway meant to bond one end of it, not both?
 
Are you using emt in a Class 1 location?

No. The propane circuit runs through emt in the shop until it punches outside into the e-stop and then transitions over to rigid.

Thanks for info Ptonsparky, I've never heard of such a thing. I'll have to price one out...
 
I just failed an inspection on a propane tank I wired. The inspector cited 514.11 and 514.16. I was a little surprised as I wired it the exact same way as another one I did a year ago that he also inspected and passed.:-? I guess I was wrong then too...

I installed an emer. stop switch about 8' away from the tank that breaks both the hot-neutral of the circuit. He is saying that it needs to happen back at the panel? Unfortunately, this is on a MWBC. Do I need to split these circuits up and get a dedicated GFI breaker(it breaks the neutral too right?) for this propane pump? I'm tempted to repull the circuit, rewire the pump for 240v and use a 2p breaker.

The second part, 514.16, he's telling me needs to have all the emt conn.(both ends of the raceway in every j-box it passes through) bonded with either a bonding locknut or grd. bushing all the way back to the panel. I thought bonding a raceway meant to bond one end of it, not both?
I?ve reread the OP a couple of times and confess I still may not have a completely clear picture of the installation ? so I?ll need to make a few assumptions. Feel free to correct my misconceptions. It sounds like the inspector may have been to a seminar since last year :D. It also appears to me he is probably correct, but needed to ?drill down? a bit further for total references. The references he did cite weren?t wrong, they were just incomplete.

Since you were cited under Art 514, I will assume we are dealing with a dispensing system. This is one of the few times the second paragraph of Section 90.7 doesn?t entirely apply. Occasionally, the NFPA Manual of Style gets in the way of clear intent because of restrictions placed on citing ?outside? standards. In this case, see the Table 514.3(B)(1), FPN reference to UL 87 in the line ?Dispenser.? The Table doesn?t define the area classification inside the dispenser; it is left to UL 87. However, it is likely internal wiring, and definitely wiring routed through the pit will pass through a Division 1 location. The inspector appears to be citing 511.11 (A) in conjunction with 501.40. A push button alone is not considered to be an adequate disconnecting means. In combination with a shunt-trip breaker, it may be. I don?t necessarily agree it must be accomplished specifically at the panel; but the disconnect must positively and simultaneously interrupt all circuit conductors, including the grounded conductor and, once opened, cannot be reset without a manual operation.

The 514.16 citation however, may be slight overkill. It is probably a misunderstanding of the reference in 514.16 to Section 501.30. Subsection 501.30(A) may give the false impression of the bonding requirements he mentioned; but it needs to be interpreted in light of the basic rule in 501.30. That is, grounding/bonding must first be consistent with Art 250 with the additional requirements of 501.30(A) and (B). Subsection 501.30(B) doesn?t apply in this particular discussion.

Properly understood, grounding/bonding consistent with Art 250 is acceptable in classified locations where the wiring methods per 501.10 are used (in the classified location) with the additional 501.30(A) restriction that ??locknut-bushing and double-locknut types of contacts shall not be depended on for bonding purposes?? Where locknut-bushing or double-locknut methods would have otherwise been acceptable in ordinary locations, ??bonding jumpers with proper fittings or other approved means of bonding shall be used? and, for those specific cases only, ?uch means of bonding shall apply to all intervening raceways, fittings, boxes, enclosures, and so forth between Class I locations and the point of grounding for service equipment or point of grounding of a separately derived system.? The Exception doesn?t apply to this discussion.

In other words, locknut-bushing or double-locknut bonding is not permissible without supplemental bonding means in the bonding path to the point of grounding for service equipment or a separately derived system - whether the entire run is in the classified location or not. But other bonding methods that would otherwise be suitable for the wiring method in the ordinary location part of the run are acceptable.

When properly applied, locknut-bushing and double-locknut bonding are suitable for the grounding/bonding path for fault clearing ? even in classified locations. However, there is sufficient evidence that fault currents and even some harmonic currents will arc at those bonding locations and they are capable of igniting a flammable atmosphere. For such bonds outside the classified location, CMP 14 is still concerned that the fault path be as low impedance as possible.

The reference to 250.100 is also material ? with one proviso. Section 250.100 has another forwarding reference to 250.92(B)(2) through (B)(4). Since threadless wiring methods are not acceptable in classified locations, 250.92(B)(3) doesn?t actually apply ? no matter what 250.100 says.
 
I'm speechless, I wasn't quite expecting such a detailed response as that.:cool:

In regards to your second paragraph on 514.11, I've read your reply a few times and am trying to understand this. If I had not put this propane tank dispenser on a MWBC, would the e-stop have sufficed? That is how I read 514.11(A). Is "readily accessible switch...located remote from dispensing devices" simply open to interpretation, making the e-stop only 8' from the dispenser to close by the inspectors judgement?

Your explanation of the 514.16 citation I also read a few times along with the referenced code articles you mentioned. I'm still reading it as requiring some sort of bonding device required on every fitting back to the service equipment ground.

501.30 mentions I need to follow the grounding requirements of art. 250 while applying the requirements of 501.30(A) to every raceway(emt and rigid) in my case, all the way back to the service. Since the article doesn't mention raceway type, I assume when they say "locknut-bushing shall not be depended on for bonding purposes that could be viewed as the typical emt connector with a standard locknut and plastic bushing. Which seems to reinforce what the inspector was stating about requiring a seperate bonding device on every fitting.

Thanks for the help, I truly appreciate it.

Bob
Your response is kind of vague...would you mind being a little more specific.;):grin:

Something tells me he's done this before.:D
 
I?ve reread the OP a couple of times and confess I still may not have a completely clear picture of the installation ? so I?ll need to make a few assumptions. Feel free to correct my misconceptions. It sounds like the inspector may have been to a seminar since last year :D. It also appears to me he is probably correct, but needed to ?drill down? a bit further for total references. The references he did cite weren?t wrong, they were just incomplete.

Since you were cited under Art 514, I will assume we are dealing with a dispensing system. This is one of the few times the second paragraph of Section 90.7 doesn?t entirely apply. Occasionally, the NFPA Manual of Style gets in the way of clear intent because of restrictions placed on citing ?outside? standards. In this case, see the Table 514.3(B)(1), FPN reference to UL 87 in the line ?Dispenser.? The Table doesn?t define the area classification inside the dispenser; it is left to UL 87. However, it is likely internal wiring, and definitely wiring routed through the pit will pass through a Division 1 location. The inspector appears to be citing 511.11 (A) in conjunction with 501.40. A push button alone is not considered to be an adequate disconnecting means. In combination with a shunt-trip breaker, it may be. I don?t necessarily agree it must be accomplished specifically at the panel; but the disconnect must positively and simultaneously interrupt all circuit conductors, including the grounded conductor and, once opened, cannot be reset without a manual operation.

The 514.16 citation however, may be slight overkill. It is probably a misunderstanding of the reference in 514.16 to Section 501.30. Subsection 501.30(A) may give the false impression of the bonding requirements he mentioned; but it needs to be interpreted in light of the basic rule in 501.30. That is, grounding/bonding must first be consistent with Art 250 with the additional requirements of 501.30(A) and (B). Subsection 501.30(B) doesn?t apply in this particular discussion.

Properly understood, grounding/bonding consistent with Art 250 is acceptable in classified locations where the wiring methods per 501.10 are used (in the classified location) with the additional 501.30(A) restriction that ??locknut-bushing and double-locknut types of contacts shall not be depended on for bonding purposes?? Where locknut-bushing or double-locknut methods would have otherwise been acceptable in ordinary locations, ??bonding jumpers with proper fittings or other approved means of bonding shall be used? and, for those specific cases only, ?uch means of bonding shall apply to all intervening raceways, fittings, boxes, enclosures, and so forth between Class I locations and the point of grounding for service equipment or point of grounding of a separately derived system.? The Exception doesn?t apply to this discussion.

In other words, locknut-bushing or double-locknut bonding is not permissible without supplemental bonding means in the bonding path to the point of grounding for service equipment or a separately derived system - whether the entire run is in the classified location or not. But other bonding methods that would otherwise be suitable for the wiring method in the ordinary location part of the run are acceptable.

When properly applied, locknut-bushing and double-locknut bonding are suitable for the grounding/bonding path for fault clearing ? even in classified locations. However, there is sufficient evidence that fault currents and even some harmonic currents will arc at those bonding locations and they are capable of igniting a flammable atmosphere. For such bonds outside the classified location, CMP 14 is still concerned that the fault path be as low impedance as possible.

The reference to 250.100 is also material ? with one proviso. Section 250.100 has another forwarding reference to 250.92(B)(2) through (B)(4). Since threadless wiring methods are not acceptable in classified locations, 250.92(B)(3) doesn?t actually apply ? no matter what 250.100 says.


Mark is that you??
 
As I mentioned in my first response there were a couple of things I wasn?t entirely sure about. One was whether or not the ?tank? in the OP, and the dispenser were in fact the same thing. Another was which edition of the NEC was in effect. The ?tank?/dispenser question affects the proper separation distances of the disconnect; the NEC question affects which edition of NFPA 30A is referenced. The main problem raised in the second question is Art 514, in neither the 2002, 2005 nor the 2008 NEC accurately references ANY recent edition of NFPA 30A. Fortunately, all three recent NFPA 30A editions (2000, 2003, 2008) are in agreement with each other for the central issues under discussion.

To summarize:

  • I believe you are now indicating the ?tank? and dispenser are the same equipment. That being the case, the 8? separation between the dispenser and the disconnect isn?t adequate ? under any condition if referencing one of the last three NFPA 30A editions. See the NEC, 514.11 FPN reference to 30A 6.7.1 and 2. (The link is to the online versions of the 2003 and 2008, NFPA 30A editions. The forwarding links are at the bottom of the webpage.) Since at least the 2000 edition, NFPA 30A has required a minimum 20? separation under ANY and ALL conditions.
  • In the context of NFPA 30A, Section 6.7, the disconnect is a ?device? or ?electrical disconnect;? in Article 514 it is a ?switch? or ?other acceptable means.? The other requirements I mentioned (must positively and simultaneously interrupt all circuit conductors, including the grounded conductor and, once opened, cannot be reset without a manual operation) are basically a synthesis of both. However, in absence of a specific applicable Article 100 definition, I look at ?switches? in general to be as described and applied in Art 404.
  • Several of the hazardous location wiring requirements that are not generally consistent with Article 501, such as wiring above classified locations (514.7) and treating underground wiring beneath any classified location as if it were in Division 1 (514.8) are no longer reflected in NFPA 30A ? and haven?t been for some time. The content in Art 514 is definitely historical residue.
  • The comment I made on multiwire branch circuits with regard to Sections 511.14(A) and 501.40 is still valid.
  • The grounding/bonding issue is indeed muddier. I can only say that 501.30(A) taken absolutely literally, since there are no exceptions listed requires ALL wiring methods ? including threaded raceways and fittings - have supplemental bonding. My original answer is the intent using the existing text as closely and reasonably as possible.
With the multiple (and often massive) changes the NEC and other NFPA documents go through each cycle, it shouldn?t be surprising that some things fall in the crack, especially where there is no official coordination between the documents. It occasionally takes multiple cycles with observant users making Proposals to fill in the gaps. I may eventually attempt it with Article 514; although it represents less than 1% of my professional activities ? even in Classified locations. I can count on one hand ? and not use my thumb and forefinger - the number of ?Motor Fuel Dispensing Facilities? I have designed.
 
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