Overflow Help without employees

[ramsy]

Any licensed electricians in Anaheim, CA area, that can handle residential service work, with only occasional remodel wiring.

Could not handle several calls yesterday.

First call was job seeker. Told them there's not enough work for myself, which was true then.

Next 2 calls were clients that either exceeded my $499. limit without state licensing (Strip Club), or refused to let me document my tasks & GL policy for my work only (Apartment Owner).

Had good one until competitor beat me to client location, and finally 10pm client promised to call back this morning, but got someone else in middle of night.

Yesterday my only job was switchboard operator, giving up work, rates, and operation methods.

Today general contractor won't take no for an answer for remodel wiring.

Don't know how my phone started ringing like this without advertising, but lets see if this forum can help?

 

[augie47]

speed reading gets one in trouble...
"10pm service call... strip club...." my significant might have some input on my taking that call

 

[ramsy]

Augie was my only taker today.

Strip club outside rope lights scrambling DJ at night. Probably from China. May need replacement rope Listed & Labeled for FCC testing against radio interference.

Sounded like the bouncer on the phone, who only spoke 4-letter curse words, and wanted it fixed before DJ arrived.

Had visions of getting cursed out, with corona virus in my face for payment.

I understand why no one likes service work. One advantage to limited licenses is a legitimate excuse to walk for lack of licensing, without provoking hostile reviews online.

 

[James L]

Augie was my only taker today.

Strip club outside rope lights scrambling DJ at night. Probably from China. May need replacement rope Listed & Labeled for FCC testing against radio interference.

Sounded like the bouncer on the phone, who only spoke 4-letter curse words, and wanted it fixed before DJ arrived.

Had visions of getting cursed out, with corona virus in my face for payment.

I understand why no one likes service work. One advantage to limited licenses is a legitimate excuse to walk for lack of licensing, without provoking hostile reviews online.

I couldn't tell if you were looking for help or looking for advice on how to get help.

 

[ramsy]

About 6 years ago a referral agreement at rocketlawyer.com was attempted. Called the Big dogs with TV ads. Asking for management got me disconnected, repeatedly by different operators.

Shops who answer their own phones don't advertise on TV, but the fist one that heard my proposal agreed to pay 5% net referral fees, for any remodel clients beyond my limits.

Later realized the license who signed my fee contract was a non-working RMO, who had an unlicensed, and uninsured guy doing my referrals without permits.

Apparently, managing corporate officers compensated from a percentage of profits are not employees, and perhaps not subject to workman's comp., or payroll taxes.

After this shop sent me a few ~$25 checks for about 30 referrals, my advertising was cancelled, and my referrals stopped.

Lesson learned: when life forms adapt from predator and prey; anything in-between is a deception, especially unenforceable contracts.

On my retirement day I can become corporate scum; the predator who hires licensed RMO's detrimentally liable for field activities.

Even where catastrophe could void insurance claims for lacking permits or qualified persons, if the licensed RMO hangs, before booted & replaced, perhaps its an acceptable cost of doing business; especially where capital loss is tax-deductible for the corporation.

 

[Todd0x1]

I'm confused on your licensing thing. You mention $499 limit. Do you have a journeyman license but no C10 contractors license? Or?

 

[ramsy]

Without NECA-IBEW, corporate RMO, or other C10 employers, CA General Electrician Certification “JW License” is not required, per CLC §3099.2. For independent contractors, handyman, 1-man laborers, or illegals with no builders License or Certification to renew, Fire & Safety-code Continuing Education Units (CEU) for minor work are voluntary.

My licensed rivals don't believe qualified electricians can operate legally without a C10 license, much less advertise, and that is generally correct, except for my case, and corporate RMO operators.

My rivals are ignoring the RMO corporate foe, in their efforts make sure State Wide Investigative Fraud Team (SWIFT) calls me to license board sting projects, to demonstrate my competence to law-enforcement officials.

Thanks in part to this forum, the license board has become one of my best paying clients.

 

[__dan]

Any licensed electricians in Anaheim, CA area, that can handle residential service work, with only occasional remodel wiring.

Could not handle several calls yesterday.

First call was job seeker. Told them there's not enough work for myself, which was true then.

Next 2 calls were clients that either exceeded my $499. limit without state licensing (Strip Club), or refused to let me document my tasks & GL policy for my work only (Apartment Owner).

Had good one until competitor beat me to client location, and finally 10pm client promised to call back this morning, but got someone else in middle of night.

Yesterday my only job was switchboard operator, giving up work, rates, and operation methods.

Today general contractor won't take no for an answer for remodel wiring.

Don't know how my phone started ringing like this without advertising, but lets see if this forum can help?

Not sure if you want the phone to keep ringing just with better calls or if you just want the calls to stop, good and bad. If you want it to stop, you could let me answer it for a bit, that may work.

My father's business when I was with him (through grade school and high school, 1970's) was 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, residential, commecial, industrial service. just him, or him and me, or my younger brothers.

We would do 5 services calls / day every day, rain or shine, boom, recession, or gas crisis. A big job was 3 days very rare, service changes 1 day, ice storms and hurricanes, I guess was our idea of a winter sport. In a town of 49,000, he was the only service contractor. He fed six kids with it, but don't ask me how. I have no clue.

Have to qualify that by saying, in those days, each trade it took 10 - 20 years at it to call yourself a painter, carpenter, electrician. Carpenters did not paint, and groundskeepers did not wire things, at least back then. I have seen painters take a steel door casing and make it look like antique rough cut wood grain. How they do that and with very little effort, I have no clue.

The 1990's came along and painters would paint a window sill but not clean the 1/2 layer of dust first. They would paint over the mound of dust. The guy trimming the shrubs would beat me first to an a/c wiring, after I had left to go get material (true story).

Scammer calls coming in went into the 10 to 1 range. There was now an order of magnitude problem.

The service call only market is a good target if you're in an area with money and people buy $600 wifi switches but then (are smart enough) to call an electrician for the install and not the guy mowing the lawn. But the trend on that has definately gotten worse with time. Evidence for this is I am sure, half the readers here have never seen the days when painters and carpenters took at least 15 years to become proficient at what they do to earn a living. But youtubers wiring their yurts is in a boom cycle.

 

[ramsy]

..If you want (all calls) to stop, you could let me answer it for a bit, that may work.

Are you offering to take these clients off my hands?

This forum is hiding the profile locations, and occupations.

My father's business when I was with him (through grade school and high school, 1970's) was 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, residential, commecial, industrial service. just him, or him and me, or my younger brothers.

We would do 5 services calls / day every day, rain or shine, boom, recession, or gas crisis. A big job was 3 days very rare, service changes 1 day, ice storms and hurricanes, I guess was our idea of a winter sport. In a town of 49,000, he was the only service contractor. He fed six kids with it, but don't ask me how. I have no clue.

Having some sons is not a bad idea.

The 1990's came along and painters would paint ..over the mound of dust. The guy trimming the shrubs would beat me first to an a/c wiring, after I had left to go get material (true story).

Scammer calls coming in went into the 10 to 1 range. There was now an order of magnitude problem.

The Fire Suppression and HVAC industry has kept their club exclusive with suppliers that refuse sales or service to unlicensed contractors. However, dark-web suppliers on Amazon.com are disrupting several supply chains with unlisted knock-offs, including Fire, HVAC, & pool equipment.

The service call only market is a good target if you're in an area with money and people buy $600 wifi switches but then (are smart enough) to call an electrician for the install and not the guy mowing the lawn..

Yes, the client demographic divide can be amazing, especially if your service area is close enough to register on their radar.

 

[__dan]

Are you offering to take these clients off my hands?

No, believe it or not, those calls I always refer to a friend. And it can be a hard time even getting him interested.

The calls I do want are the (electrical work) that everyone else has looked at and don't know what or how to do. And even then, I probably cannot labor on them and just want the exercise of figuring it out and getting it moving in the right direction. They don't always (want to) move in the right direction, so they should not call me if so. But that's how I see it.

This forum is hiding the profile locations, and occupations.

I like it that way. Being found on Facebook or Linkedin is one of the things that scare me.

Having some sons is not a bad idea.

Yeah, I started out at $1 / day. My brothers could never believe that. Paid for school by working summers for no pay and getting a check for $600. at the end of the summer. He had six, I was the oldest son

The Fire Suppression and HVAC industry has kept their club exclusive with suppliers that refuse sales or service to unlicensed contractors. However, dark-web suppliers on Amazon.com are disrupting several supply chains with unlisted knock-offs, including Fire, HVAC, & pool equipment.

Lighting supplier reps were the worst. They would put you out of business. but Controls, yeah, JCI (Johnson Controls) one other big one I forget which, would not sell parts or advise and had the market locked up. Honeywell was the exception and would pull out all the stops to support installing contractors. I would call them or the supply house rep and give them the application, they would recommend the control for it. They would send out cartons of library information, service and technical manuals. Honeywell, Tekmar, HeatTimer, wanted contractors doing their OEM sales.

Simplex was funny. They were always writtern into the spec, and if they knew you offered an alternate, you were done. I always liked Simplex and never subbed them from their spec, the rep liked me. But no matter who it was, when I called them for factory support, they either gave it up the easy way or the hard way. Mostly always the easy way. That was how I would choose who I would install or service, they had to have good phone factory engineering support. Or I would not consider them.

Yes, the client demographic divide can be amazing, especially if your service area is close enough to register on their radar.

My father was a Lasalette brother. In the old days, large families would select one son to train as a priest instead of going to high school. Which he did instead of high school, he went to the seminary. They were self sufficient back then, growing their own food, keeping their own farm animals, any work they did themselves. that was where he learned electrical, wiring the seminary buildings.

Time came to take the vows and he decided not to. He was always far better than me with (gift of) discernment about detecting shysters, my blind spot, but there was no one too far down the ladder he would not consider helping. He would take service calls at dive and biker bars, sometimes once in a while bring mom there for a drink. There was a story she forgot her purse there one night and got it back the next day. Everyone else was so amazed the purse had survived the huge fight that night.

 

[RumRunner]

Without NECA-IBEW, corporate RMO, or other C10 employers, CA General Electrician Certification “JW License” is not required, per CLC §3099.2. For independent contractors, handyman, 1-man laborers, or illegals with no builders License or Certification to renew, Fire & Safety-code Continuing Education Units (CEU) for minor work are voluntary.

My licensed rivals don't believe qualified electricians can operate legally without a C10 license, much less advertise, and that is generally correct, except for my case, and corporate RMO operators.

My rivals are ignoring the RMO corporate foe, in their efforts make sure State Wide Investigative Fraud Team (SWIFT) calls me to license board sting projects, to demonstrate my competence to law-enforcement officials.

Thanks in part to this forum, the license board has become one of my best paying clients.

What you're doing is exploiting an ambiguity or inadequate enforcement of the law that is spelled out by the California Consumer Affairs.

The law allows any person to enter into a contract without required licensing as long as it doesn't exceed $500 worth of work.

It is a LOOPHOLE in the law that is manipulated by non-licensed persons.

This $500 limit is a joke.

A project that exceeds the limit can be split or divided in such a way that each portion does not exceed the $500 limit--hence the $499.

Since these are mostly handymen -- they are "jack of all trades" -- doing plumbing and carpentry next.
A home owner whose biggest investment is his home . . . it would be throwing caution to the wind when hiring a handyman to do electrical work.
Licensing in California like many others is proof that a person is qualified to do the work. Also some kind of certificate is awarded to attest to this claim.
This practice has been going on--for much as I can remember.

It is not breaking the law because there is no law when someone uses it [loophole] to circumvent the law, whether implied or stated.

Using an unemployed RMO is another way of circumventing it.

This is a situation called LACUNA where the gap in the law --hence --doesn't address the particular issue. It is a latin word which means no applicable law exist (lacuna in the law)

So, to OP enjoy it while you can. There is no law that is perfect.

 

[curt swartz]

A project that exceeds the limit can be split or divided in such a way that each portion does not exceed the $500 limit--hence the $499.

That is an incorrect statement.
From CSLB:
Work on a larger project, may not be broken down to smaller amounts of less than $500 in an attempt to meet the $500 exemption;

 

[RumRunner]

I've said my word and that is what I meant.
You are not telling me anything.
You want an argument about that. . .go for it.

 

[ramsy]

The calls I do want are the (electrical work) that everyone else has looked at and don't know what or how to do. And even then, I probably cannot labor on them and just want the exercise of figuring it out and getting it moving in the right direction.

Sounds like a controls shop could recruit you as their Responsible Managing Operator, which may involve some job-site supervision.

But first, read some common dilemmas of RMO's on this forum with greedy owners forcing them to consider resignation. With their trade licenses subject to liability for management's conduct, dangerous conditions on job sites, and unqualified hiring practices.

 

[romex jockey]

were clients that either exceeded my $499. limit without state licensing (Strip Club)

Have you considered frequenting classier strip joints ramsy?

~RJ~

 

[ramsy]

I've said my word and that is what I meant.
You are not telling me anything.
You want an argument about that. . .go for it.

Most contractors, licensed or not, are completely ignorant of how their activity voids property insurance of their clients. When fire & casualty claims are denied by default, homeowns bear the burden to prove their alterations complied with the letter of the law, including the limited work per CA B&P 7048 cited by Curt Swartz. Without any documentation, invoice, or AWAL contractors, property owners don't have a chance of getting insurance to pay claims.

The CA license board newsletters shows both licensed & unlicensed contractors are equally prosecuted, for voiding claims, during S.W.I.F.T. sting projects.

Just like the unqualified hacks, GC contractors and C10's registered at the license board with Wormkman's Comp. exemptions are caught with uninsured helpers.

While larger corporations actively lobby Republican legislators to de-fund the CA Dpt. of Consumer Protection (CSLB S.W.I.F.T. division), the small time operators targeted by the license board are perhaps the most ignoramus and prolific violators.

 

[__dan]

Sounds like a controls shop could recruit you as their Responsible Managing Operator, which may involve some job-site supervision.

But first, read some common dilemmas of RMO's on this forum with greedy owners forcing them to consider resignation. With their trade licenses subject to liability for management's conduct, dangerous conditions on job sites, and unqualified hiring practices.

Anything managing in the job title I run the other way. I need good manager(s) to work with and if there are none, the situation is untenable. Rescue me.

Design build is my thing, and I bid pretty regularly in the controls world. Power plants and the Utility have been a tough market to break into.

 

[__dan]

Have you considered frequenting classier strip joints ramsy?

~RJ~

"Crime does not pay"

The movie "GoodFellas" was based on a true story book. I happened to read the book before seeing the movie (I think I have that connection right).

The book's author and lead in the movie was a plumbing contractor in the Jersey Shore casino area. He gets a late night call to put in a new boiler for a hinky mobbed up storefront operation (surely there was alcohol involved, probably girls also). He does the boiler and sends the bill. The bill comes back to him marked up with "Crime does not Pay".

He tries to collect, honest pay for honest work, but instead of getting paid he gets larger and larger jobs in the casinos and their environs. He was brought in, I'm sure witnessed some of what was in the movie, and eventually gives State evidence. Great book and movie, but not exactly the same story. Memory's fuzzy but in the movie, I seem to recall the lead may have been played by Dicaprio as a young punk kid. The origin story is not in the movie.

The other phrase that comes to mind is "be careful what you wish for".

 

[Hv&Lv]

"Crime does not pay"

The movie "GoodFellas" was based on a true story book. I happened to read the book before seeing the movie (I think I have that connection right).

The book's author and lead in the movie was a plumbing contractor in the Jersey Shore casino area. He gets a late night call to put in a new boiler for a hinky mobbed up storefront operation (surely there was alcohol involved, probably girls also). He does the boiler and sends the bill. The bill comes back to him marked up with "Crime does not Pay".

He tries to collect, honest pay for honest work, but instead of getting paid he gets larger and larger jobs in the casinos and their environs. He was brought in, I'm sure witnessed some of what was in the movie, and eventually gives State evidence. Great book and movie, but not exactly the same story. Memory's fuzzy but in the movie, I seem to recall the lead may have been played by Dicaprio as a young punk kid. The origin story is not in the movie.

The other phrase that comes to mind is "be careful what you wish for".

You talking about “Sam the plumber”?

 

[curt swartz]

I've said my word and that is what I meant.
You are not telling me anything.
You want an argument about that. . .go for it.

You need to learn to read and stop posting false information.